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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 15, 2009 14:56:37 GMT -5
oh boy
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 15, 2009 14:55:03 GMT -5
Platte Sioux would comprise both Upper Brule (Kheyata Wichasha) or Sichangu, and the Oglala. The Lower Brule (Kuya Wichasha) would not be Platte Sioux, their hunting and trading operations being focussed toward the Missouri River.
After 1850 certain Miniconjous were considered Platte River Sioux, again because they chiefly traded west of the Black Hills with outfits from the North Platte (greater Ft Laramie area), rather than the Missouri-based traders who worked the east side of the Black Hills. In an 1868 report Joseph Bissonette refers to the Platte Miniconjous (mentioning Roman Nose as a chief) and the Missouri Miniconjous (mentioning Lone Horn and Red Fish as chiefs). These identities were not static. I am sure Lone Horn some years would have been classed Platte Miniconjou.
Hope this helps
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 14, 2009 11:18:58 GMT -5
After the settlement at Pine Ridge the Loafer band split. American Horse's part of the band settled over in the Medicine Root District, while the Blue Horse-Red Shirt groups settled to the immediate west and south of Pine Ridge village, Wakpamni District. Red Cloud was located right next to the latter group so there was some blurring.
In 1890 the census names Red Cloud's band as the Flat Bottles (also listed by Colhoff). The Bad Faces by that name are reduced to only one family, George Sword's - which perhaps tells us where the core blood line of the Bad Faces descends from. Much of the old Bad Face band of the 1860s was by then grouped under Flat Bottle, Sore Back (He Dog and brothers), and Badger Eaters (No Water). One more example of the extreme fluidity of these bands.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 14, 2009 11:11:12 GMT -5
In the 1980s a contact at Ft Laramie sent me photocopies of some post documents that he called "Scout Reports". They were from November 1866 and dealt with a visit by some Lakotas from the north. There was a big debate - were these people genuine envoys from Red Leaf (which is what they claimed) or simply visiting relatives in Loafer camp? Trivial in a way, but a real flavour of the times. Arising from this a number of friendly Lakotas, I think from Swift Bear's Corn Band (they definitely included a brother-in-law of James Bordeaux) were sent north with tobacco for various chiefs - Red Cloud, Red Leaf, Man Afraid of His Horse, Black Twin (first mention of the latter that I've come across). There is a quite lengthy if a little confusing account of the mission.
(Blue Horse went on a similar mission in December, a month later. According to an account in Nebraska State Historical Society (A. E. Sheldon papers) angry warriors threw his tobacco in the fire.)
Anyway my contact moved on and I've never tried to track down further Scout Reports, supposing they exist. I'm not sure about the scout status of Big Mouth et al. However Big Mouth was the leader of the Indian police force at Upper Platte Agency in 1864-65, they were fitted out with surplus army uniforms etc. Maybe they were on an Army payroll too? Maybe Tom Powers could help with this.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 14, 2009 7:40:33 GMT -5
You are right jinlian, Hyde says that Red Cloud's father Lone Man belonged to the Kuhinyan band. He Dog told Mekeel that, and Mekeel told Hyde. He Dog also told Mekeel that Smoke originally belonged to the Tasnahecha (Ground Squirrel) band, and later to the Bad Faces.
These bands were dynamic and fluid, and what I suggest is that He Dog is recalling the state-of-play before say 1820. Then intermarriages took place (e.g. Lone Man to Smoke's sister Walks As She Thinks) in the 1820s and 30s, and out of that a new band is created - the Bad Face band which crystalises as an autonomous band after 1840. Because of the feud with Bull Bear, the Bad Faces leave the Kuhinyan/Kiyuksa band at the end of 1841, and ultimately (1845?) align themselves permanently with the Oglala Proper / Hunkpatila band. Then in the 1850s as I outlined in my earlier post, a part of the Bad Faces hived away again to form the core of the new Loafer band.
Tapisleca band: what I think may be happening here is a confusion of two different men/families with similar names. There was a man called Blue Haired Horse, Sunk hin-to. This was quite a prominent family, earlier connected with Man Afraid of His Horse and the Hunkpatila-Payabya band. The Tapisleca settled next to the Payabya on White Clay Creek, and there was quite a blurring of families between these communities - just as we saw with Kuhinyan and Tasnahecha in the 1820s, except that now houses were permanent so the social situation as it were was frozen in place.
More later on Blue Horse's peace mission in Nov.-Dec. 1866 - hence Two Moons' recall of him being present at the time of the Fetterman fight
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 13, 2009 14:17:34 GMT -5
Two different Red Shirts. The Loafer band chief/Wild West Show celebrity is the fellow we've been talking about. In the 1890 Pine Ridge census he is listed, age 44, Okle Sa, Red Shirt in the Wagluhe Band, White Clay District.
The guy who was the son of Red Dog is separately listed, age 42, Okle Sa, Red Shirt, in the Makaicu Band, Wounded Knee District. George Hyde printed the classic image of the famous Red Shirt (in A SIOUX CHRONICLE) and mis-identified him as the son of Red Dog in the caption.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 13, 2009 8:35:46 GMT -5
jinlian
I too have come across reports that the Loafer band leader Red Shirt was the son of a white father. His facial structure indicates as much - the older he got the more white he looked I always thought. I have seen statements that he was related to Little Crow, also a Loafer headman. Little Crow is first mentioned in a newspaper report from 1855, already a fixture around the Ft Laramie area trading community.
The way I understand the band structure is that Smoke's band was called Bad Face, Ite Shicha, in the period from 1841, when it broke with the Kiyuksa/Kuhinyan band after the feud with Bull Bear. I differ from Hyde about Smoke's son being the fellow called Bad Face. I have studied Hyde's source, a letter from Scudder Mekeel, and other oral sources, and I think that Woman Dress was the son of Smoke himself. Family descendants have told me as much.
Later part of the Bad Face band led by Smoke lingered in the Ft Laramie district, forming the core of the Loafer (Wagluhke) band. A report by Thomas Fitzpatrick, Upper Platte Agent, from 1853, expresses surprise at the growing number of Indians settled around the trading posts along the North Platte, giving up hunting for a life on the fringe of the cash economy. Given that Fitz had been at Ft L. in 1852, and taking into account the extremely hard winter of 1852-53, I am inclined to think the Loafers were crystalising out right then, in 1853.
Big Mouth and Blue Horse, brothers, are identified in an 1867 report as formerly Bad Faces, now leaders of the Loafer band. They must have been kin of Smoke, and were approximately one generation younger than him (Smoke was probably born a little before 1800), but whether they were biological sons in the European sense - I dunno. Blue Horse's statement to Burbank seems definitive, he was the biological son of Smoke, but modern family statements don't include BH and BM among Smoke's boys. The jury's out I'm afraid.
I'd like to see your views on the Loafer band role in the Bozeman Trail war, it would be interesting. They acted as envoys and messengers, Blue Horse himself carrying tobacco to Red Cloud more than once from Ft Laramie in a bid to reopen negotiations. Of course there was a deep game also being played with Loafer intermediaries certainly supplying their 'hostile' relatives with intelligence and some indirect access to trade.
Toksha!
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 12, 2009 13:50:26 GMT -5
hi jinlian
A few thoughts on the Loafers in the period 1868-1870. The band numbered approximately 100 lodges, or 600 people. In origin they were mainly Oglala and Brule, but in the words of band head soldier Bad Hand (to Sanborn Commission, 1867) there were "grandmothers from all the bands" in the Loafer outfit. In mid-June 1868 a large party of Loafers and the inmarried trading community started from Ft Laramie to the new agency on the Missouri, Whetstone. My belief is that approximately half the Loafers, following Big Mouth, Fire Thunder, and other headmen, made this initial journey. The other half, led by Big Mouth's brother Blue Horse, by Little Crow (Red Shirt's father), and other headmen remained on the Platte. They may have joined Man Afraid of His Horse's village on the South Cheyenne River for the Sun Dance season. In August 1869 Blue Horse and his camp came to Whetstone in company with Red Leaf's band of Wazhazhas. A small group of Loafers remained about the North Platte, near fts Laramie and Fetterman, including Red Shirt, a rising warrior headman. Possibly Red Shirt's warrior society affiliation - he belonged to the Wichiska society founded by Old Man Afraid of His Horse - affected his determination not to go to Whetstone. This group was probably no larger than 15-20 lodges.
In October 1869 Spotted Tail killed Big Mouth, resulting in a crisis in band leadership. The removal of the Whetstone agency to upper White River in 1870-71, and the establishment of Red Cloud Agency on the North Platte in 1871, resulted in the band shifting its affiliation. Piecemeal several family groups rejoined the Oglalas at Red Cloud. By December 1871 Blue Horse had 36 lodges at Red Cloud Agency. Other groups identified as "Loafers Band" at RCA then were Spotted Cow, 16 lodges, and Spotted Horse, 10 lodges. A number of other families, identified as "Ogallalla" or "Half Breed" in Col. J E Smith's tabulation, had probably come from the Loafer community at Whetstone.
The Loafers remaining at New Whetstone (Spotted Tail Agency from 1874) increasingly amalgamated their village organization of chiefs, headmen and akichita police with the Brule Corn Band. A March 1872 report by Agent Risley included a petition by the Lakotas permanently settled at that agency. The signatures read
Yellow Hair White Thunder Swift Bear Fast Dog Dog Hawk Owl Eagle Iron Shell
A July 1872 request for farming implements was signed "For the Loafers" at "White Clay Agency" (the site near modern Whitney, Neb.) by:
Thigh Blue Tomahawk Goggle Eyes Kick Red Nose Cut Pecker.
Simultaneously several Brule and Oglala headmen at the agency signed a claim for the loss of horses to white thieves in 1868:
Swift Bear Thigh John Blue Tomahawk Yellow Hair Cook.
Thigh and his wife formed part of the Brule delegation to Washington summer 1872. Perhaps Dietmar could upload the Alexander Gardner portraits (two of each) to this thread?
These lists give a good idea of Loafer band leadership at Whetstone/Spotted Tail agencies in the 1870-75 period. In any case they show that Thigh remained at the Brule agency as you speculate.
Hope this helps
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 10, 2009 8:42:20 GMT -5
Louis
Were the three sons of Waanatan I born to different wives? Do we know who these wives were?
Many thanks
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 8, 2009 16:48:35 GMT -5
Dietmar, the last five names on the Yanktonai 1868 treaty signatory list (Yellow Eagle to Mad Elk) are actually Oglalas, who signed at Ft Laramie in the week or so after the main Oglala signing (May 25,1868). They have been included in the Yanktonai run, as printed first by Kappler, by some clerical error. The Yanktonai, Hunkpapa, Sihasapa, Sans Arc and Two Kettles actually signed the "Ft Laramie Treaty" at Ft Rice, North Dakota.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 8, 2009 16:11:59 GMT -5
Like Dietmar I just want to welcome ftpeckpabaksa to the site.
Dietmar posted up the list of chiefs recognized by Gen. Harney in 1856. Incidentally they weren't chosen by Harney. He did tell the various Lakota-Dakota divisions that he wanted each to nominate a head chief plus a council of nine "sub-chiefs". The Upper Yanktonai council then nominated Black Catfish as its head chief, and named Medicine Bear as one of the so called sub chiefs.
There is another Harney document, compiled in the fall of 1855 soon after his arrival at Ft Pierre (after marching overland from Ft Laramie and the Bluewater battle), in which he lists various Lakota bands. It lists Medicine Bear as the chief of one of four Yanktonai bands. He gives Cut Himself as another name or nickname for the chief. I wonder if this could mean that his band was the one identified as Bakihon, Gash Themselves With Knives? (see Dietmar's presentation of the Yanktonai band lists). Harney's report for the Yanktonais reads:
"1st Band of Yanktonais - 'Two Bears' Chief. Their country, from James to Mouse [Souris] Rivers, on the east side of the Missouri River and now [Nov. 1855] near the mouth of 'Long Lake' - about 180 miles from here [Ft Pierre].
2nd Band of Yanktonais - 'Don't Eat Buffalo' ('Nobsedie') Chief. Their country, about the 'Bone Butte' near the head of James River, about 150 miles from here.
3rd Band of Yanktonais - 'Big Head' Chief. Their country, from here to mouth of Mouse River, now about 40 miles below Fort Clarke, on Missouri River, at 'Apple Creek'.
4th Band of Yanktonais - 'Medicine Bear' or 'Cut himself' Chief. Their country, from here to the mouth of Mouse River, on the East Bank of the Missouri - now about 250 miles from here."
I'll post more as I come across it
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 8, 2009 8:34:39 GMT -5
I've just received my copy of LITTLE FISH from Coyote Books. It looks well up to the excellent standard of Mark Diedrich's series of Dakota Indian biographies - moreover it was written with the assistance of American-tribes.com board member Louis Garcia of the Spirit Lake Oyate. All in all, a must read for anyone with a serious interest in the Dakota or Eastern Sioux!
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 7, 2009 11:24:30 GMT -5
The Oglala No Neck was one of Smoke's younger sons, born in the early 1850s. The headman killed at Slim Buttes, American Horse or Iron Shield, is also said to have been a son of Smoke, but must have been twenty or thirty years older than the kid brother. He Dog described Iron Plume as a Sans Arc. I think both Iron Plume and another brother Charging Bear married into the Sans Arcs and lived with that tribe for many years. I'm not aware of any relationship with the Hunkpapa No Neck.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 7, 2009 10:41:56 GMT -5
Thanks brock, I too enjoyed the clip of Pete Catches talking, also the one Dietmar posted.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 3, 2009 8:57:29 GMT -5
The famous Spotted Eagle was born about 1835 according to censuses, I wonder if Josephine Waggoner's birth date of 1859 refers to the son - the "Young Spotted Eagle" of Huffman's portrait. In the John G. Bourke diary for 1880 there is an entry about the visit of an Oglala delegation from Pine Ridge to Ft Keogh to meet the surrendered Canadian Lakotas. Bourke states that Young Man Afraid of His Horse and Spotted Eagle were brothers. That can't mean sons of the same two parents, but any other variation is possible. It could also mean adoptive hunka brothers I guess.
Kingsley
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