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Post by kingsleybray on Jun 9, 2010 11:20:08 GMT -5
agnes, I've been slowly putting ideas together, but I stress that's all this is - an informed guess as to how these relationships work. But what could be the hub is the family of Standing Bull (Tatanka Nazin) I. He was an active war leader by the mid-1770s so I suggest he was born in the slot ca. 1735-40. His family belonged to the original or True Oglala band. By the mid-19th century his lineal descendants (Standing Bull II, Oglala head chief in 1825, still alive in 1832; Standing Bull III, active in the 1850s; Standing Bull IV, active in the 1870s and forward) were identified by Makula (Left Heron) as belonging to the Hunkpatila band, which was really a part or sister band of the True Oglala.
The relationships that Wendyll talks about would work if we consider that three daughters of Standing Bull married: (a) Man Afraid of His Horse I (Kuhiyan band, connected to Kiyuksa, born ca. 1750/5), became parents of Man Afraid II, born ca. 1780 (b) Bull Bear's father (Kiyuksa band, born ca. 1760), became parents of Bull Bear, born ca. 1785/90 (c) Parts of Body (Sihasapa band, born before 1770?), became parents of Smoke, born ca. 1790s
The above three men came from outside the Oglala tribe but married into one of its leading tiwahe during roughly the 1780s. In this way they 'became Oglalas'.
The children of these three marriages, including Man Afraid II, Bull Bear, and Smoke, would have called one another brother and sister.
I repeat this is a model of what might have been - any comments would be welcome from white folks and NDNs!
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Jun 4, 2010 11:52:21 GMT -5
thanks jinlian, that's fantastic. Do we have anything else on Sits on edge of fortification? Also the Crow form of his name?
Are you in touch with Joe Medicine Crow at all?
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Post by kingsleybray on Jun 3, 2010 5:54:35 GMT -5
Two Crow leaders signed the Treaty of Horse Creek in September 1851. On the original document only phonetic forms of Indian names are given, without any translation. I am trying to identify all the Indian signatories.
The Crows are:
1. Arra-tu-ri-sash
2. Doh-chepit-seh-chi-es
The first is not problematic, this is the chief Big Robber (or Big Shadow, sometimes Big Robert), the leader of the Kicked in the Bellies division. He was selected by the tribe as its principal chief.
But who is the second? My guess is that this is Mountain Tail, but can Crow experts confirm or refute? Mountain Tail was part of the Crow party that came to the treaty and he gave the second Crow speech after Big Robber. The last two syllables above, " -chi-es", seem to correspond to the Crow word for tail, chiisa. Does anyone recognize the "Doh-chepit-seh" part of the name?
Do we know anything more about Mountain Tail? He is identified among the Crows on the Alexander Gardner images from the Ft Laramie treaty of 1868.
Many thanks
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 27, 2010 10:45:46 GMT -5
Thankyou wahpekute for this information. Bone Necklace was the father of White Ghost, and so was of the Sunkikceka band also. Do you know what bands some of the other leaders at Crow Creek belonged to? Some of the important leaders in the 1860s to 80s were Wizi, Don't Know How, White Bear.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 27, 2010 10:18:17 GMT -5
Thanks for the new info', Ephriam. Skutani is sometimes glossed as Kutenai, but I'm sure what it originally signified was the Gros Ventres of the Prairie or Atsina, northern relatives of the Arapaho. The Gros Ventres and the Blackfeet were very closely allied until the 1860s. Alternatively, could 'Skota' be a misprint for 'Slota', the Canadian metis?
You could be right on the Occam's razor Wakpokinyan explanation, but I'm wondering if there isn't a connection between the Wakpokinyan and the Siksichela bands, whence possibly Josephine's self-correction? My reasoning, and once again this is speculative of course, is that Lone Horn is identified as of the Wakpokinyan in FV Hayden's band tabulation of 1858. In the Scudder Mekeel 1931 Field Notes is the statement by Peter Stands that Lone Horn, his older namesake, Spotted Elk (Big Foot), and Yellow Hair were all related (allegedly as brothers) and belonged to the Siksichela band. Again there is a Josephine Waggoner statement that One Horn was of the Siksichela.
Bronco LeBeau told me that the Siksichela, found as sister bands in three of the Northern Teton divisions (Miniconjou, Sans Arc, Hunkpapa), were a split-off from the Kiyuksa group, and because of their D-Dakota origin they originally spoke the d-dialect. Elaine Quiver told me that the Wakpokinyan are of Santee origin, came west via the Big Sioux R. and ultimately joined the Miniconjou. These would seem to be early (18th century?) phenomena we're talking about.
How come this stuff just gets more interesting?
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 25, 2010 10:01:28 GMT -5
Emily, I don't know about the Siyaka connection but about an earlier White Bear, a leader of that name was among the ten Lower Yanktonai (Hunkpatina) chiefs recognized by Gen. Harney in 1856. He attended and spoke at the treaty talks at Ft Sully in 1865 and 1866, and settled at Crow Creek Agency. He was still an active leader at Crow Creek in 1876 at the time of the Black Hills Agreement.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 22, 2010 14:12:18 GMT -5
Emily,
Bone Club is named as of the Wakpokiyan band in the biographical profile by Josephine Waggoner in the Waggoner papers at the Museum of the Fur Trade. I had assumed that this was a small extended family group split from the Miniconjou band and which settled among the Hunkpapas.
Alternatively could the Wakpokiyan have originated among the Hunkpapa? This might fit your band information. Could you post the Hunkpapa band list which includes the Wakpokiyan? It might help to make sense of things. Looking at p. 207 of ELLA DELORIA'S THE BUFFALO PEOPLE once more and reading about Weasel Bear "of the Hunkpapaya, of the Wakpokiya sub-band", might point in that direction too. I don't know what to make of the paragraph there about Weasel Bear. Is it connected to the material before and after, about the Tokala (Kit-Fox) society? Is Ella/Makula saying that Weasel Bear was a founder of the Tokala? The statement that he Wakan Tanka ihanbla, 'dreamed of Wakan Tanka' suggests a very powerful holy man. Is he connected to the man in the winter counts (No Ears group, White Bull, etc.) ca. 1770 who also dreamed of Wakan Tanka and evidently went crazy?
On the Miniconjou Wakpokiya: According to F. V. Hayden's band tabulation, ca. 1858, Lone Horn was the chief of the band. According to Chris Ravenshead, who spoke to a lot of old people about Miniconjou tiyoshpaye in the early 90s, it was also the band to which Lame Deer belonged.
Hope this helps
Kingsley
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Patesni
Apr 21, 2010 16:35:10 GMT -5
Post by kingsleybray on Apr 21, 2010 16:35:10 GMT -5
emily, as you may well know Makula (Left Heron) told Ella Deloria that he and three other youths were invited by the crier of the Miniconjou Tokala society to join the Tokala. He names the other three as Kinyan Hiyaya (He Goes By Flying), Mato-hlo-inyanka (Bear Runs Growling), and Paunka (He causes to fall by pushing against). The first is the younger Flying By, born ca. 1850 (like Makula) and one of Lame Deer's sons. The same individual mentioned by Waggoner in your quote. This was at a Tokala re-organization that I would assume fits somewhere in the later 1860s.
Source: Julian Rice, "Ella Deloria's The Buffalo People" (University New Mexico Press, 1994), p. 207.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 16, 2010 5:12:06 GMT -5
thanks again brock for the new information which is never less than fascinating! The problem with the Spotted Elk id is that he also went on the 1875 delegation, and in fact he is the man seated right in front of Lone Horn in the detail from the group photo posted above. He is the man wearing the eagle feather slanted down to the left (his right). If you look carefully you will see the outline of the head of the rawhide horse effigy just below his dentalium choker; it is plainly visible in the 'new' group photo recently identified by Dietmar at Minnesota State Hist. Soc.
I just want to also register that for instance most of what I wrote above about Lone Horn's involvement in the 1875 Black Hills council, his subsequent visit to Sitting Bull, and so on, is derived from Lakota statements, in particular those of Black Elk and his friends to Neihardt in 1931 and a number of statements made in 1923 in testimony to Ralph Case's Black Hills litigation. These were Lakota people who were in most cases eyewitnesses to these events - Black Elk not an eye-witness but recounting what his father told him, the elder Black Elk being present at the Black Hills council.
I then use the standard documentary record, agents' reports, newspapers and so on to try and amplify the details. Hopefully using all sources we can come up with something that allows us a wider perspective on the whole context. We have to allow for the usual spin, distortion, total misunderstanding of another culture, simple truth that no two people ever see an event exactly the same way, our own failures of insight whatever - but we have to make the effort.
Great to hear about the forthcoming book - do we have any idea of a date yet?
All the best
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 14, 2010 9:03:00 GMT -5
Brock, thankyou very much for the information you posted on Lone Horn and the Black Hills issue. Lone Horn certainly went to Washington with the Cheyenne River Agency delegation in May-June 1875, then attended the great Black Hills council near Red Cloud Agency the following September, when he spoke out against the proposed sale or leasing of the Hills. During October he travelled north to counsel with Sitting Bull at the Hunkpapa fall hunting camp on the lower Yellowstone, assuring Sitting Bull that he had declared against the sale proposals. He then (roughly, November) returned to his own wintering camp on the Cheyenne River. The exact location of this camp would be interesting to know. It clearly wasn't at the agency located near the mouth of the Cheyenne, but it may have been along the middle course of the main river, maybe the Cherry Creek area, or even further up near the Forks. Do the family know where Lone Horn himself was buried? That might help pinpoint it. Lone Horn died during the winter 1875/76 - I lean to it being early, around December perhaps. The words used, that he died of "grief" or "shame" over the Black Hills match the account you give, with the chief feeling that he had been morally tainted by his involvement in the Black Hills negotiations. It was a tragedy, Lone Horn was one of the great statesmen of the Lakota people.
Touch the Clouds went to Washington two years later, in Sept. 1877 as part of the delegation from Spotted Tail Agency. He went as the spokesman for those Miniconjous who had at the end of the 'Great Sioux War' surrendered at Spotted Tail.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 14, 2010 8:49:10 GMT -5
I was glad to see Victor's additions to the Rosebud Sioux Tribe website, especially his long piece on the 'History of Sicangu Tiyospayes'. He and I spoke at length on this topic during several conversations in 2001 and 2002, and I worked much of his information into my paper "Making the Sichangu Hoop" in the new tribute volume for Colin Taylor, GENEROUS MAN. There is very much of value in Victor's exposition!
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Mar 24, 2010 13:29:11 GMT -5
Yes Carlo, Big Crow was indeed a Miniconjou. The winter counts record his death at the hands of Crows while out hunting magpies (for the feathers) on the Belle Fourche R. early in 1859. It is a fascinating detail from brock that Touch the Clouds was an eyewitness to the event.
Big Crow was one of the sons of Black Shield, the Miniconjou chief. My feeling would be that Black Shield was born about 1810, Big Crow about 1835, so the latter was a contemporary of Touch the Clouds. According to Joseph White Bull (Walter Campbell papers) Black Shield was one of the leaders of the Eat No Dogs (Shunka yute-shni) band of Miniconjou. My own informants have stated that this was the band of Hump, also.
Up until 1840 one of the large main bands of the Miniconjou tribe was called Wanin-waktonila (means something like Killed Accidentally), also known by the similarly-sounding name Wanhin Wega, Broken Arrow. As said this was a big band, rated by Joseph Nicollet in 1839 at 80 lodges, equivalent to about 500 or 600 people. That year the band broke up, and out of the split-up a new tribal division was formed, the Oohe nompa or Two Kettles. One of the sub-bands of the Broken Arrow was the Eat No Dogs. Part of this group stayed with the Miniconjou, and formed the band led by Black Shield, No Heart, the Hump family and other prominent tiwahe. Part of the Eat No Dogs certainly aligned themselves with the newly independent Two Kettles, however, because the Long Mandan family were rated as of the Eat No Dogs band by Josephine Waggoner. Undoubtedly family ties remained strong across the tribal divide, a lot of visiting back and forth, and so in this sense Big Crow and his family might be rated Two Kettle.
That's how I read this evidence.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Mar 24, 2010 3:47:41 GMT -5
thanks for posting the John S. Gray paper on Bear Face and Long Feather's peace mission, Emily. I've been meaning to track that down for years!
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Mar 22, 2010 16:26:53 GMT -5
'Before Sitting Bull: Interpreting Hunkpapa Political History, 1750-1867', should be published this year in the Summer issue of SOUTH DAKOTA HISTORY.
Kingsley
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Post by kingsleybray on Mar 22, 2010 13:32:17 GMT -5
Analysing some of the above, I infer that some of the confusion has been created by Fr De Smet, who transposed two names in his list of delegates. His "Kaive ou neve or the Little Chief" is misplaced among the Sioux delegates and should be listed as Cheyenne. His "Obalawsha, or Red Skin" is misplaced as Cheyenne and should be listed as Sioux. Dietmar correctly read the latter name as sounding Lakota. I think it is another form of the name recorded in the newspaper account as Wambalupe Luta. The words -sha and Luta both refer to the colour red. And I think we have a name match to positively identify this delegate (and the photo identified as Red Plume or Big Rib etc.). The name Wambli pehin luta, refers to an eagle with red plumage. We find it first in the record in 1804 when Lewis & Clark tabulated "War-mun-de-o-pe-in-do-tar" as one of the chiefs of the Saone division of the Teton Sioux or Lakota. (Saone was an early name identifying several northern Teton divisions including the Sans Arc and the Hunkpapa.) In 1865 the first signatory of the Sans Arc treaty at Ft Sully was "Wah-mun-dee-o-pee-doo-tah, The War Eagle with the Red Tail", a later chief carrying the same name. I think our 1851 delegate is probably the same man as the 1865 signatory.
We can continue to follow this man in the record, since an 1871 report in the Cheyenne River Agency Letters Received microfilm identifies "Wam-be-lu-pe-lutah (Burnt face) a Chief of the Sans Arc band of Sioux Indians, [who] has cultivated for the last two years about thirty five acres . . . at a place 12 miles below this Agency". Burnt Face is obviously a second or nickname. In 1875 a newspaper report from the Black Hills talks at Red Cloud Agency noted the presence of Burnt Face, second chief of the Sans Arcs (the first or principal chief at the agency was Crow Feather.) In the 1876 military register of Cheyenne River Burnt Face's age is noted as 60, born ca. 1816. (That would make him about thirty-five or -six during the 1851-52 delegation.) In 1879 Burnt Face was one of the leaders of the Cheyenne R. Indians (mostly Two Kettles and Sans Arcs) who fled to Rosebud to get away from the martinet regime then running Cheyenne River.
More on other delegates later, but please send in your thoughts. Is the Red Plume/Big Ribs image that of a man in his mid-thirties, for instance? As I indicated to Dietmar I thought these were two different men wearing the same clothing, but there are better facial identifiers ought there than me! Please help!
Kingsley
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