Kiglashka band

[kingsleybray]

I'm trying to trace this Hunkpapa band or tiyoshpaye, the Kiglashka. The name means They Tie Their Own. I was interested to read J. R. Redwater's entry on Gall in the LAKOTA section of the site. He mentioned Good Fur and Shoots Bear as being related to Gall. My research indicates that both these families belonged to Kiglashka. Maybe J. R. can help out a little more, with any information that could tie this up. Could Gall's family be connected to the Kiglashka?

The other individuals we know as belonging to Kiglashka include Jaw, the informant of Frances Densmore, and Wind, the mother of Josephine Waggoner. Also Grasping Eagle, who was a brother or cousin of Wind.

Anyone out at Standing Rock or elsewhere that can help?

Kingsley

[ladonna]

Gall's wife Winyan Waste-
daughter-Brown Woman-Jenny Gall
Married Good Fur

JR Redwater is a descendant of Loneman Gall's brother

Have you looked at Jaws winter count?

[kingsleybray]

Thanks, LaDonna.

According to Ron Papandrea Good Fur was the father of Okute Sica (Bad Shooter, born ca. 1868), who remained in Canada after Sitting Bull's return to the USA. Okute Sica was in turn the father of John Okute Sica, identified as belonging to the "Kiglaska Sioux", descendants still living in Canada.

I shall check the Jaw winter count. I'd forgotten about that!

LaDonna or other friends from Standing Rock, maybe you can set me right but here is my current hunch. Of the four Hunkpapa "chiefs" (wichasha itanchan) seated in ca. 1850 - Four Horns, Running Antelope, Red Horn, Loud-Voiced Hawk - the latter is identified by One Bull (statement to Walter S. Campbell) with a band called Istemela. Unfortunately this band name doesn't crop up anywhere else. BUT the name, Istemela, which means Slumbers, or Sleeper, does crop up as the name of a man living in Gall's camp at the time of the Sitting Bull Surrender Ledger Sept. 1881. Now the Gall camp was made up of families from several different bands, but I find it interesting that clustered close around the Sleeper family are two families we know to be connected to Kiglashka - namely, Jaw and Grasping Eagle (or Grabbing Eagle). So the way I'm thinking at the moment is that Sleeper was the name of a prominent family within the Kiglashka band, and that Loud-Voiced Hawk (made chief ca. 1850, died from accidental knife wound early 1868) was the chief of Kiglashka. Perhaps after his death the band broke up, with elements joining various bands/camps. The Okute Sica evidence indicates that some of the band certainly remained in Canada. Some of the Canada people came in to Standing Rock ca. 1883-84 led by No Neck (see Ephriam's postings here and/ or on LBHA site), and I note that in 1885 the Standing Rock Ration List notes someone called Loud-Voiced Hawk as part of No Neck's band. This would be a younger man of the name, but maybe we have another Kiglashka connection being hinted at. So No Neck may have belonged to Kiglashka too?

LaDonna I understand now that Gall was connected to the Good Fur family through marriage, so I presume he couldn't have been Kiglashka by birth. One of the W S Campbell interviews identifies Gall with the Cheknake Okisela (Half Breechcloth) band, Josephine Waggoner identifies him with the Kangiska (White Crow) band. The latter is nowhere else listed. Half Breechcloth is placed in the tribal camp-circle right next to Kiglashka. Red Horn is identified as its chief by One Bull. (Other lists place Red Horn with other Hunkpapa bands.)

Before this begins to get too confusing for me, let alone readers!, I'll sign off and invite all comments and corrections.

Best

Kingsley

[ladonna]

I found Istemela under Circling Bear
in 1885 ration list

I found the widow of Istemela
born 1861 Ehakeglinapewin

In the 1889 Standing Rock Census
Grasping Eagle born 1848
Spouse Anputlutawin-Red Day born 1859

then in the 1917 Cheyenne River
Grasping Eagel in Cheyenne River census born 1848
age 71

[kingsleybray]

Thanks LaDonna for finding the time to do some more digging. Circling Bear is interesting because he was a Sans Arc, but remained at Standing Rock after the people from Canada were returned to their home agencies in 1882. He stayed and was counted as a Hunkpapa after 1882. I wonder if there is a Sans Arc-Kiglashka band connection in some way? Reason I ask is that besides this connection, Jaw remarked to Frances Densmore that while one of his parents (I forget which way round) was a Kiglashka Hunkpapa, the other was a Sans Arc. Then we get Grasping Eagle turning up in the 1917 Cheyenne River census. Interesting . . .

Thanks again, I appreciate your efforts at this time. To show how much I appreciate, check out the new Hunska Chanto-juha thread... (yeah I know, take-take-take)

Love to all

Kingsley

[ladonna]

on the 1885 census he is
Under Sitting Bull band
Sleeping
spouse Pretty Day
daughter: Eagle tracks
daughter: Rattling Tail

[emilylevine]

I have more census info on Grasping/Grabbing Eagle and will post it as I locate it. For now:

Grasping Eagle and Red Day had a daughter named Alice, born around 1889

1888 census: Grasping Eagle is listed with an aunt: Winyansica (Bad Woman) (age 52) and a mother-in-law: Towin (Blue Woman) (age 64)

Also: In addition to Acorn (Mary Effinger), there are census records listing another sister of Itatewin (JW's mother): named Mazalutawin (Red Iron Woman), a few years younger than Itatewin. In 1891 and 1892 she is listed as a widow. Waggoner doesn't mention her in her manuscript.


Re Jaw in Densmore:
"My mother was a Gi´gilas´ka, a division of the Hunkpapa band, and my father was a Sans Arc..."

Em

[charlie]

I think that Josephine Waggoner had miswritten the correct term "KIGLASHKA" with the wrong term "KANGISKA". If so was, we can quietly declare that Gall belonged to Kiglashka band by marriage and to Cheknake Okisela band by birth. Are you agree?

[kingsleybray]

It's an attractive idea, charlie, and it would clear up an anomaly - namely, that Josephine Waggoner links Gall with a band, Kangi-ska (White Crow) that isn't named in any other source. However in her section on the Hunkpapa, she lists the bands including Kiglashka (though not Kangi-ska). So she did know the name Kiglashka, indeed she identifies her own mother as belonging to the Kiglashka.

So at this stage all I can say is, I'm not sure. Not very satisfactory, I agree!

One thing I would observe is that all these bands were dynamic, changing, growing, losing strength, disappearing, sometimes I suspect re-emerging years or decades later. Even at the Teton tribal level - Oglala, Hunkpapa, etc. - I think if the old culture was still operative today we would have some 'new' tribes that had crystalised out of these processes of change, and old ones that disappeared by merging with other groups.

At the moment the way I'm looking at Gall and the Kangi-ska band is that it may be an amalgam of parts of several older bands. When Gall surrendered in 1880-81 his camp contained elements from at least:

Cheknake Okisela (Half Breechcloth): Gall himself. (I note that Red Horn the band chief in the 1850-77 period disappears from the record some time during the Canadian exile.)

Kiglashka: Jaw

Ichikhra: Black Moon

Talonapin: Bear's Cap

Interesting that these bands all cluster together in the Hunkpapa tribal circle (round the western arc of the hoop), indicating that they were all originally connected anyway, so natural that the population should re-sort itself in this way.

As with a lot of this internal native history, I think we have to be prepared to live in doubts for a while until things snap into focus.

Kingsley

[ladonna]

remember the time too after canada people were taken place where they felt strength from
who were there allies

[emilylevine]

I checked the two versions of the Josephine Waggoner "Gall" manuscript that I have, and they both clearly spell "Kangiska" and she delineates them as "White Crow band." So I don't think she "miswrote." However, I haven't seen her refer to this band anywhere else that I can recall. I will keep my eye out for that.
I agree that the bands were very fluid; coming, going, merging, breaking up. We can only make a list of bands for a certain point in time.

[emilylevine]

I have two Hunkpapa band lists wherein JW lists both Kiglaska and Kangiska. She also writes all the band names out in one of her "chapters" and both are included there as well.
I need to double check them because I think she lists some chiefs too.

[charlie]

I have seen No Neck, somewhere in the web, labelled as brother of American Horse (Iron Plume), died in "Slim Buttes". But this last was an Oglala, not Hunkpapa...
I also have seen No Neck labelled as son of the important Oglala chief Shota (Smoke).
May be that No Neck was half Hunkpapa and half Oglala?

[kingsleybray]

The Oglala No Neck was one of Smoke's younger sons, born in the early 1850s. The headman killed at Slim Buttes, American Horse or Iron Shield, is also said to have been a son of Smoke, but must have been twenty or thirty years older than the kid brother. He Dog described Iron Plume as a Sans Arc. I think both Iron Plume and another brother Charging Bear married into the Sans Arcs and lived with that tribe for many years. I'm not aware of any relationship with the Hunkpapa No Neck.

Kingsley

[Dietmar]

Charlie asked me to post this:



Is this No Neck Hunkpapa or Oglala? More infos (and photos) about these two chiefs? Thanks. (Charlie)