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Post by grahamew on Jun 30, 2008 14:13:01 GMT -5
I'm assuming the first is of Agent McLaughlin amongst some men at Standing Rock, although that looks like Good Voice sitting in the centre. That's John Grass next to McLaughlin, isn't it? Two Strike and Swift Bear stand in the back row; the man seated at far left looks like Wilson, the messenger with the Crook Commission of 1889. Is that Crook in the centre? Or is it Rosebud agent Spencer? And the last one...?
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Post by jinlian on Jul 1, 2008 4:30:40 GMT -5
The man in the second picture is indeed Rosebud agent Libbeus Foster Spencer (see the picture in this web page: www.westsidenewsonline.com/OldSite/westside/news/2003/0728/features/descendant.html)As for the third picture, sitting in the middle row 3rd, 4th and 5th from left are Reverend William Cleveland, Richard H. Pratt and John W. Wright, members of the Pratt commission in charge of explaining the infamous Sioux bill to the Lakotas. As for Natives, I agree with your identifications; about the second picture, the Indian standing second from right looks a little bit like Yellow Hair, but I'm not 100%sure. I'll try to post a high-resolution scan of the 1888 delegation tonight, maybe it can help with the identifications.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 1, 2008 9:12:05 GMT -5
Hi friends,
very interesting group photos.
About the first one: I would assume it was taken at Standing Rock from the individuals who are in the picture. John Grass and McLaughlin are correct, I would think. Next to Grass sits Mad Bear the Yanktonai chief. Sitting far left could be the Hunkpapa Thunder Hawk. The man next to him (in the center) looks like Bear Ribs II (Hunkpapa) and then perhaps Gray Eagle (Hunkpapa, Sitting Bull´s brother in law). Sitting far behind… Hairy Chin (Hunkpapa)? I´m sure I´ve seen the man standing far right before. Maybe High Hawk/High Bear? I´m not sure on this last one.
About the second photo: These all are Rosebud men. I must have somewhere a better resolution scan of this picture, but I´m also sure about Yellow Hair. Swift Bear and Two Strike are also safe, right to them is Whirlwind Soldier. Sitting 6th from left is Living Bear or Liver Bear, I´ll have to look for the other names.
I´m not sure about any of the Indians in the third photo, I´m afraid.
Best wishes
Dietmar
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Post by grahamew on Jul 1, 2008 9:33:00 GMT -5
Hmmm, I should've recognised Mad Bear and Pratt! Rinehart's High Bear. You could be right.
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Post by jinlian on Jul 1, 2008 17:08:16 GMT -5
The 1888 Washington delegation: The Brulé are in the second row, and the Smithsonian Institute gives the following identifications (left to right) 1. Ugly Wild Horse (Bad Wild Horse) 2. Pretty Eagle (Good Eagle) 3. He Dog 4. Good Voice 5. Quick Bear 6. Black Wolf 7. Swift Bear 8. Ring Thunder 9. Two Strike 10. Grey Eagle Tail 11. Sky Bull 12. Red Fish 13. Yellow Hair 14. Eagle Horse 15. Thomas Flood, Interpreter, 16. Col. L. F. Spencer, Agent at Rosebud. I'll give a further look at it tomorrow to see if it can be of some help to identify the Natives in the second picture (too tired to do it right now ). Dietmar, you mention Living (Liver) Bear - wasn't he the father of Plenty Horses, who killed Lieutenant E. Casey in 1891? (this was a sketch done during the Plenty Horses trial) As a matter of fact, I can see some resemblance.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 2, 2008 4:47:45 GMT -5
Yes, he was the father of Plenty Horses. There is a group photo with him at the Plenty Horses trial.
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Post by grahamew on Jul 2, 2008 6:33:55 GMT -5
I'm sure there's another photo from this session that shows American Horse in the line-up. I'll have to check.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 2, 2008 8:54:50 GMT -5
Thanks Grahame, this was the photo I meant.
Back to the Rosebud group photo: - standing third from left could be Two Strike´s son Little Hawk - standing fourth from right is Hollow Horn Bear (I´ve never seen him with such short hair) - standing right from Two Strike is more likely Roaster, not Whirlwind Soldier (wasn´t he Two Strike´s son-in-law?) - sitting right to Living Bear is Good Voice
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Post by jinlian on Jul 2, 2008 9:46:19 GMT -5
Yes, Dietmar, the man in the second photo, standing third from left, could be in fact Little Hawk, at least from what I can see comparing this picture with another one, taken almost ten years later: Grahame, the only other picture of the Plenty Horse trial participants I know of is this one:
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Post by grahamew on Jul 2, 2008 12:41:01 GMT -5
There's at least one more:
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Post by jinlian on Jul 3, 2008 3:56:17 GMT -5
Wonderful picture, Grahame - has it been published somewhere?
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Post by grahamew on Jul 3, 2008 6:33:42 GMT -5
I have this really bad habit of downloading without noting the site I take things from... Sorry.
It's interesting how the 'cast' has changed. I wonder on what basis...
Who's that between He Dog and American Horse? Red Shirt?
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Post by jinlian on Jul 3, 2008 7:14:41 GMT -5
Thanks for your answer - I was just wondering if this (or other) pictures were in the Di Silvestro book about the Plenty Horses trial.
About the Indian (or half-blood) sitting between American Horse and He Dog...my first thought was Red Shirt too, but I don't remember having seen him mentioned among the trial's witnesses (on the other hand, why should he have to?). About the "rearrangement" of the trial participants, the most remarkable absences are those of Jack Red Cloud and Living Bear...the first one with some reason, but I have no explanation for the the latter.
I wonder if we're not too off topic now...should we begin a new discussion?
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Post by grahamew on Jul 4, 2008 3:07:44 GMT -5
Unfortunately, this is the only size I've got it.
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Post by Dietmar on Dec 1, 2008 10:06:21 GMT -5
Here are two group photographs without any identification of individuals. The first shows White staff members posing with Indian policemen at Standing Rock Agency in 1880 by an unknown (?) photographer: I would assume that the two men standing right before the door and behind the man with the white beard are John Grass and Gall, what do you think? Any other suggestions? The second photo was taken by photographer J.C. Carbutt and shows Oglala at the North Platte. Most interesting is the Lakota sitting in the center and holding a pipe. Who is it? Thanks.
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