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Post by dickmill on Nov 18, 2009 17:52:10 GMT -5
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Post by dickmill on Nov 18, 2009 17:48:06 GMT -5
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Post by dickmill on Nov 18, 2009 17:37:17 GMT -5
I'm somewhat confused by all the "Thunder Hawks" and don't seem to find a mention of the Thunder Hawk who participated with Spotted Tail Jr. in the murder of White Thunder on Rosebud in 1884. Here is a photo of the two: <img>http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs091.snc3/15851_1133698033558_1560515921_30303480_1032947_s.jpg</img>
Thunder Hawk of the Standing Rock delegation to Washington in 1888 is pictured here: <img>http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs091.snc3/15851_1133699433593_1560515921_30303482_8088576_s.jpg</img>
He's 4th from left, 3rd row (Sitting Bull is far left, 3rd row) in this photo: <img>http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2574/194/6/1560515921/s1560515921_30045398_5544425.jpg</img>
I also saw a postcard some time again on eBay identified as "Thunder Hawk", but it's faded and I'm not sure which man it is: <img>http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs091.snc3/15851_1133698833578_1560515921_30303481_6193126_s.jpg</img>
Are there then THREE Thunder Hawks we're talking about?
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Post by dickmill on Nov 13, 2009 23:03:44 GMT -5
"Little is known of his life or whereabouts afterwards. " (caption under the turtle bone necklace) George Hyde also makes this statement in "Spotted Tail's Folk" (maybe that's where the statement above came from.)
Actually, this isn't quite true. Spotted Tail Jr. was on the reservation during the tenure of Agent George Wright (1882-1886) and Col L.F. Spencer, my ancestor (1886-1889.) Spotted Tail Jr. died in June, 1888 of consumption. He was baptised in the Episcopalian church 3 weeks before he died and was buried near his father in the Spotted Tail cemetery. His marker is still there. Agent Spencer recorded Spotted Tail Jr.'s last will and testament, a document which is in a collection in Denver. There are also newspaper articles written about Jr.
Jr. is often confused with William and vice-versa; often they are stated as being the same person, which, of course, isn't true. Part of the problem is that Jr. is sometimes referred to as "Young Spotted Tail" and historians more familiar with William have taken that designation and attributed it to William -- and then the error multiplies. For example, Jr. caused a lot of trouble at the Crow Dog trial and historians/authors reading about "Young Spotted Tail" in newspaper accounts have replaced "Young Spotted Tail" with "William" in their own writing.
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Post by dickmill on Nov 10, 2009 17:22:47 GMT -5
The man with the watch as you describe is Spotted Tail Jr., oldest son of Spotted Tail.
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Post by dickmill on Nov 1, 2009 10:30:07 GMT -5
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Post by dickmill on Sept 27, 2009 17:12:49 GMT -5
Carlo,
I have a personal copy of New Sources. Page 168 is certainly there. Between it and page 169 is a map "Map of Colonel Baker's Camp on the Yellowstone River."
Just to be sure that 168 is your problem, page 167's last sentence begins "Iron Bull followed him and", and is continued on 168 with "counted the second coup."
I can scan any pages you don't have. Send me an email if you need them: dick.miller@comcast.net.
Dick
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Post by dickmill on Jun 20, 2009 19:22:19 GMT -5
This photo reminded me of a book that may interest some members: "Exploring with Custer -- the 1874 Black Hills Expedition", by Ernest Grafe and Paul Horsted. Photographer William Illingworth recorded the expedition. Grafe and Horsted reproduced diaries and maps along with the old photos and then -- amazingly -- went out and found the locations where Illingworth shot the photos and took modern day shots. The Custer/bear shot is on page 256. The photo in the book is a slightly different pose than the one posted here. I wasn't aware that there were multiple photos.
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Post by dickmill on Jun 14, 2009 8:53:36 GMT -5
Charles Tackett is Spotted Tail's son-in-law.
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Post by dickmill on Feb 20, 2009 15:59:07 GMT -5
Dietmar: Having looked for photos of Spotted Tail Jr. for several years, the last one you posted (with wife and child) is one I haven't seen -- and I wonder weather or not it's him (I would expect higher cheekbones -- but a single view can be deceiving.) Do you have a reference for this? Although Spotted Tail Jr. had children enumerated in censuses in the mid-1880's, most died very young. The child in the photo looks "older" than one would expect of Spotted Tail Jr.'s children. Spotted Tail Jr. died in June of 1888 of TB. I'm traveling for a week, so I may be tardy in replying. Dick
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Post by dickmill on Feb 6, 2009 20:02:23 GMT -5
In the third photo, the middle man in the back row is Spotted Tail Jr. -- not William.
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Post by dickmill on Jan 10, 2009 12:13:01 GMT -5
There's a lesson! "Quick Reply" doesn't recognize ! (the post should have said "link WASN'T recognized."
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Post by dickmill on Jan 10, 2009 12:11:12 GMT -5
Maybe because I used the "quick reply", the photo link was recognized -- so here's a second try:
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Post by dickmill on Jan 10, 2009 12:07:20 GMT -5
Dietmar: Why didn't the above image show in my post? (You can copy the link and see it.)
Your questions: In a letter I found (Jul 31, 1887), Spencer described the photo session with Spotted Tail Jr., Crow Dog, and Swift Bear "in Omaha", but states no photographer. In future postings, I'll provide information on Jr., William, other sons, Carlisle, etc.
The article you refer to on this thread is about me! I've done a lot of publicity work and lecturing around Spencer's home town (Spencerport, NY. outside of Rochester) in order to solicit information on the family and time period.
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Post by dickmill on Jan 10, 2009 11:55:24 GMT -5
Let's address the first photo on the first page of this thread. In Oct, 1888 chiefs and headmen from the 6 agencies went to Washington (the famous photo on the Senate steps.) In addition to that group photo there are delegation photos for each agency taken in Washington. Prior to Washington, in September, 1888, agency delegations were sent to Lower Brule to meet with the Pratt commission. Things were going badly for Pratt (he didn't even visit all 6 agencies, because failure to secure 3/4 of adult males was a certainty.) There are "delegation" photos from September at lower Brule, of which the first photo in this thread is one -- Standing Rock with Major James McLaughlin. (Why was McLaughlin an honorary "Major" and Spencer a "Colonel" -- it's a mystery I haven't been able to solve -- other than perhaps personal preference.) The Sept. Lower Brule photos were provided to the press with ID's (are you getting excited?) Below is a document which has information on each delegation: photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v645/89/23/504198771/n504198771_1266099_2711.jpgSome cautions: The names are simply listed, not necessarily corresponding with any order in the photos. Also, there may be people missing or others not listed included in each photo. BUT! This document is probably the best existing clue to photo IDs from those September Lower Brule "delegation" photos. Some of you have already commented on IDs. I'm not 100% certain of all IDs, so I won't comment myself. Since this document may be hard to read in the post, if you send me an email I'll send you a jpg. Also, if you wish, I have a very clean copy of the Senate steps group photo which I can email. It has all the ID's (readable at the bottom.) Drop an email to dick.miller@comcast.net. Another caution: some of the photos I have are restricted (e.g. I bought scans and must get permission for further use, or they are downloaded with permission), so at times I'll post a low-res version. I'm happy to provide the citation in any case so you can go to the source yourself. Please respect possible restrictions by going to the source directly if you plan on using any images for publication.
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