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Post by dickmill on Jan 12, 2010 9:57:01 GMT -5
Graham: Tho photo you posted above is on the front of a "photo card" with this on the back: Actually, the man is Whirlwind Soldier. I've almost finished a small research project on Whirlwind Soldier, including several conversations with descendants on Rosebud. I'll try and put up information later today, but the short story is that Whirlwind Soldier was a nephew of Spotted Tail and one of Spotted Tail's entourage (his descendant called him a "bodyguard"), and his "adopted son", a common term for the Lakota, but misconstrued by whites as a blood relative. I have original documentation which explain how people (historians) conclude he is a son (because that's what he's called!), when he's not. This is his relationship to Spotted Tail: Tangle Hair was the father of both Spotted Tail and a daughter (don't know her name) who married Spotted Crow (Cheyenne) and produced Whirlwind Soldier.
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Post by dickmill on Jan 11, 2010 9:55:14 GMT -5
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Post by dickmill on Jan 10, 2010 17:13:01 GMT -5
Asking for help from the members again: In documenting photos of Spotted Tail's sons William and Jr., I ran across the following at NAA a few years ago. No one I've spoken to so far (including experts at NAA and friends on Rosebud) have been able to identify the man: The man is obviously not Spotted Tail Jr, but I've been unable to identify him. Dietmar suggests that it's "Poor Dog." Does anyone have photos of Poor Dog to compare? The following photo is from "Buffalo Bill's Wild West Warriors" (Kasebier photos edited by Michelle Delaney of the Smithsonian, pg 54.) The caption is "Spotted Tail, his wife and son" and is identified as circa 1898. We know that Jr. died in 1888 and the man is definitely not William. The man does have similarities to the Smithsonian photo above, but I don't think it's the same man. Any help? Finally, from my collection is the following: I believe that this photo was taken c. 1886-88. The building in the rear appears to be a Rosebud building. The large man in the middle appears to be Roast ("Roaster" in some photos.) Note the man to HIS LEFT -- he looks like the "Spotted Tail Jr." in the NAA photo above, identified by Dietmar as Poor Dog. Is the man in the top and bottom photo Poor Dog? Who is the man in the Kasebier photo in the middle? Thanks!
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Post by dickmill on Jan 9, 2010 19:14:23 GMT -5
The problem with ID's -- here is a montage of photos of Spotted Tail's sons William and Jr.: I've spent a lot of time identifying these two men (and making corrections!), but the middle photo (supplied by Dietmar above in this thread) truly makes identification difficult. The bottom two rows are Jr. The top photo and the left and right in the second row are William. Is the dark brown photo (second row middle) Jr. or William?
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Post by dickmill on Jan 9, 2010 19:04:07 GMT -5
FYI -- here are Claus Jacobson's two books (Swedish book 1989, English book 2004 -- two DIFFERENT books, NOT a translation of the first!)
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Post by dickmill on Jan 9, 2010 14:02:02 GMT -5
Henri -- I've uploaded your photo from "Sioux of the Rosebud" here: And here's a little better image of the Anderson postcard: I can't explain the "edits" that were made for the postcard!
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Post by dickmill on Jan 9, 2010 13:59:28 GMT -5
The first Jacobson book is entirely in Swedish. The second was published in 2004 in English (a NEW book -- NOT an English translation of the older book): "Rosebud Sioux: A Lakota People in Transition." I think that's the one you may be referring to.
The first was published (in Swedish) in 1989, entitled "Rosebud Sioux: ett Folk I Forvandling" (which, I believe also is "A People in Transition"!)
Both books are self-published by Claes. The first book in Swedish is 176 pages and has, of course, many Anderson photos and quite a bit of history on John Anderson. The second book in English has additional Anderson information and Rosebud history and is 207 pages.
Claes put a lot of effort into paper selection and photo reproduction in the second. The dual page photos are amazing. The first book in Swedish is good quality, but not the same (meaning cost of printing!) as the second.
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Post by dickmill on Jan 8, 2010 13:21:59 GMT -5
Claes Jacobson, of Stockholm, who produced two books on the photography of John Anderson, is a friend. I have Anderson photos in my collection from my ancestor, Col. L.F. Spencer, the Indian Agent at Rosebud, 1886-1890. I recently ran across two Anderson photos that neither Claes nor I have been able to explain, so I ask for the help and opinions of the members here. The photo on the left was for sale on-line and this is the best image I could capture. On top it says, in part, "Indians of North America" and I can't make out the rest. The photo on the right was also on-line and it says, "Published for J.A. Anderson Rosebud S.D." What is interesting is that the barn and hill on the left photo have been "Photo-Shopped" away on the right (long before PhotoShop!) What's confusing is that Anderson's name appears on the photo with the barn missing, which certainly destroys the integrity of the photo! Does anyone have any insight into this?
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Post by dickmill on Jan 8, 2010 13:06:55 GMT -5
A friend on Rosebud recently directed me to "Buffalo Bill's Wild West Warriors" the Kasebier photos edited by Michelle Delaney of the Smithsonian. My friend is a descendant of American Horse and noted the photo on page 101: First, the photo appears to be of Thomas, son of the chief, and his wife. But, what is striking is the display of intimacy (closeness, touching his shoulder.) I said that I hadn't seen anything like this. Thus, the question to the group: is this a rare occurrence?
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Post by dickmill on Dec 19, 2009 15:10:07 GMT -5
Thanks, Dietmar! I'm waiting for a book I ordered, "Buffalo Bill's Wild West Warriors" by Michelle Delaney of the Smithsonian. Several people have pointed out photos to me that are obviously in error. I see you increased the recent posts number to 50. FYI -- I have cable and it loads just as quickly. Perhaps it would help if the site announced new threads, also?
Great effort from all the creators, administrators, and members! I'm amazed at the European knowledge of American Indians! I wish Americans (especially students) had your interest.
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Post by dickmill on Dec 17, 2009 11:28:03 GMT -5
Jinlian: At the bottom of the message index page, under "Forum Statistics", there is a link "View the 25 most recent posts of this forum." Is that what you mean? It took me a while to find this, but I look at it at least once a day (sometimes more!) and get all the latest posts for all the threads. A GREAT tool!
This site is simply terrific. I have several questions about ID's in photos I have and I couldn't find a better group to help me. (I have several questions on Spotted Tail family photos, which I've been studying for several years. I'm waiting for a couple of books, and then I'll post the photos in question.)
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Post by dickmill on Dec 5, 2009 11:44:08 GMT -5
And don't forget Two Strike in the delegation photos from Washington, Oct, 1888: Back row, 2nd from right Second row, 8th from right
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Post by dickmill on Nov 19, 2009 9:11:55 GMT -5
I also have another photo in my collection labeled "Thunder Hawk and Wives." I don't know if this is the same man who partnered with Spotted Tail Jr. in the White Thunder murder. The time of the photo is late 1880's, when my ancestor was agent at Rosebud.
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Post by dickmill on Nov 18, 2009 22:46:40 GMT -5
The Macy & Doughty photo above is from my collection. I've seen another at the Nebraska Historical Society in the Jordan collection. The full story of Jr. and others (including Thunder Hawk) killing White Thunder can be found in the Hyde book "Spotted Tail's Folk" in the epilogue, page 305. There is also a full file of documentation in the National Archives (I have copies.) It's also in the epilogue that Hyde states on page 307 "Young Spotted Tail sank into obscurity. We do not know when he died." I posted this response in another section of this site, and repeat it here so others don't have to look for it: Spotted Tail Jr. was on the reservation during the tenure of Agent George Wright (1882-1886) and Col L.F. Spencer, my ancestor (1886-1889.) Spotted Tail Jr. died in June, 1888 of consumption. He was baptised in the Episcopalian church 3 weeks before he died and was buried near his father in the Spotted Tail cemetery. His marker is still there. Agent Spencer recorded Spotted Tail Jr.'s last will and testament, a document which is in a collection in Denver. There are also newspaper articles written about Jr. Jr. is often confused with William and vice-versa; often they are stated as being the same person, which, of course, isn't true. Part of the problem is that Jr. is sometimes referred to as "Young Spotted Tail" and historians more familiar with William have taken that designation and attributed it to William -- and then the error multiplies. For example, Jr. caused a lot of trouble at the Crow Dog trial and historians/authors reading about "Young Spotted Tail" in newspaper accounts have replaced "Young Spotted Tail" with "William" in their own writing. For those interested in tombstones, here is Jr.'s: Everyone must have believed Hyde, that Jr. just disappeared. All the time, he has been 20 feet from his father in a well-marked grave with details of the burial in the Episcopal Church Rosebud records.
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Post by dickmill on Nov 18, 2009 17:53:30 GMT -5
geezzz...I feel dumb (Some day maybe I can use a REAL FTP site!)
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