Cochise

[jeroen]

I wondered why we did not think of a thread on Cochise yet... so here it is! I start with this familiar portrait long thought to be Cochise:

While doing research for my book on the Chiricahua I have found this is actually a portrait of Juan Rey, a Pueblo leader... Other images and info is welcome... Btw, I heard Edwin Sweeney is working on yet another book with more additional info on Cochise... does anybody know anything about this?

[cinemo]

Hi jeroen,

before I read your posting, I thought that the above photograph shows Cochise. A mistake on my part
and probably for many other people.

Probably, Cochise was never photographed, no photograph of Cochise has ever been found.
There is a painting of Cochise by W. S. Sutter or Sutton, titled > Cochise 1872 <
It is rumored that Sutter discovered either a photograph or a sketch of Cochise.
The original of this photograph or sketch was never found. The painting of Sutter or Sutton was
discovered by Charles V. Parker in 1997.

It is said Cochise`s youngest son Naiche, to have looked like his father ( photographed 1884 )

There is a little confusion with the origin name of Cochise, how is this name originated ?

Greetings from Germany - cinemo

[gregor]

Are you talking about this painting?



"Cochise by W. S. Sutter, 1872"

The man (?), clothing and the headgear looks a little bit strange, compared to Naiche, who is said to look like his father.

Has anybody some infos about Sutter?

Greetings from Germany - Gregor

[gregor]

Just found this on the internet:

William S. SUTTER
1888 - 1938

Walter Samuel Sutter was born in San Francisco, CA on December 31, 1888. He was a lifelong resident of his native city except for a brief period when he lived in the San Joaquin Valley. A sign painter, in his leisure he painted landscapes of Marin County and the Big Sur south of Carmel. He appears to have been self-taught except for encouragement from Maynard Dixon. Sutter died on June 3, 1938. Exhibited: San Francisco Art Ass'n, 1925-29; Beaux Arts Club (San Francisco), 1927; San Diego Fine Arts Gallery, 1927; California State Fair, 1930. Works held: Sierra Nevada Museum (Reno).

So - if this is our man - it is impossible, that Sutter knew Cochise personally. He must have had a photo or a sketch of Cochise. But if you ask my tummy - the painting is pure imagination.

[cinemo]

Hi gregor,

thanks for posting of this image and information. Yes, this painting was meant.

Greetings - cinemo

[jeroen]

I agree with Gregor that the painting feels like pure imagination. Still, I do think that Sutter did have a sketch or eye witness account of some sort on which he based this portrait, perhaps the Samuel Cozzens sketch for there is some resemblance there... The feather was probably added to make him look more Indian. The headband and scarf indicate that Sutter was an artist of limited ability.
I don't think there is an authentic photograph or that Cochise actually sat to have his painting made. So far, Sladen's account, edited by Sweeney, remains the best source of what kind of man Cochise was and how he may have looked like, along with the short describtions by Arny, Safford, Howard, Jeffords and Bourke.

[kayitah]

Wow, I just wanted to look up something about Cochise and was really surprised to see that we haven't yet had a long discussion about Cochise going on!

I was wondering about his second wife, whose name is given by at least one writer (will have to look him/them up) as Nalikadeya ("girl that goes along the hillside") and, probably, was the mother of Naithlotonz (Bridget) and Dash-den-zhoos (Susan). Would be interesting know more about her name and if it is legit or just one writer's idea (maybe influenced by the early western "Broken Arrow")...

[jasper4]

When one looks at Naiche one will see his father per a greatgrandkin of Naiche who lives in Mescalero and my Elder

[coeurrouge]

Aug 3, 2012 21:18:02 GMT -5 kayitah said:

Wow, I just wanted to look up something about Cochise and was really surprised to see that we haven't yet had a long discussion about Cochise going on!

I was wondering about his second wife, whose name is given by at least one writer (will have to look him/them up) as Nalikadeya ("girl that goes along the hillside") and, probably, was the mother of Naithlotonz (Bridget) and Dash-den-zhoos (Susan). Would be interesting know more about her name and if it is legit or just one writer's idea (maybe influenced by the early western "Broken Arrow")...

Sweeney on his books always said that Dos-teh-seh was the mother of all the knowned children of Cochise. He said that Naithlotonz and Dash-den-zhoos were full sisters of Naiche and Taza. Yones, wife of Coyuntura, became wife of Cochise when her first husband, brother of Cochise, was hunged.

Cochise had surely other wifes and children killed by Mexicans or Americans, some maybe at Galeana with his father Pisago Cabezon. From his closeness with Miguel Narbona, we can think that Cochise was a brother or a son in law of Miguel.

[cinemo]

Hi couerrouge,

there is a mistake with regard to Cochise`s wives and children. The first wife of Cochise was
Dos-teh-seh, daughter of Mangas Coloradas. Dos-teh-seh was the mother of Taza and Naiche.

The name of the second wife of Cochise, a Chiricahua woman, is not safe. Maybe it was Yones,
but probably it was Nahlekadeya . With his second wife Cochise had two daughters, Dash-dan-zhoos
and Naithlotonz. Why Nahlekadeya ?
The two daughters were born before Yones husband was killed.

Christian Naiche and other descendants of Cochise have stated, Cochise had no other sons than
Taza and Naiche.

Greetings from germany - cinemo

[coeurrouge]

I try a Cochise's genealogy with a lot of suppositions and interpretations

Share your opinion of that

I) Pisago Cabezon (not know Chiricahua name,1770-7.07.1846)/ Unknown wife
around 1810 - Goci (boy)
around 1815- Girl
around 1820 - Juan (b)
around 1825 - Coyuntura (b)

II) Goci (1810-08.06.1874)
/ Dos-teh-seh (daughter of Mangas Coloradas, 1815?-1915?)
around 1842 - Taza (b)
around 1856 - Naiche (b)
around 1860 - Dash-den-zhoos? (g)
around 1860 - Naithlotonz? (g)
/sister of Nahilzay? (?-?)
around 1860 - Dash-den-zhoos? (g)
around 1860 - Naithlotonz? (g)
/Yones (widow of Coyuntura, 1830?-?)
around 1851 - Chee (adopted b)
around 1855 - Adopted girl

II) Full sister of Goci (1815?-1883?) - Goci right hand warrior? (?-04.1859)
around 1848 - Atelnietze (b)?

II) Juan (1820?-1878?) - Nedni wife?
around 1855 - Yanozha (b)?
around 1850 - She-ga (b)?

II) Coyuntura (1825?-19.02.1861) - Yones (1830?-?)
around 1851 - Chee (b)
around 1855 - girl

III) Taza (1842?-26.09.1876) - apparently never married?

III) Naiche (1856?-16.03.1821)
/Nah-de-yole (daughter of Eskinya, 1858?-1909?)
/E-clah-eh (grand daughter of Makho, 1859? - 1909?)
/Ha-o-zinne (daughter of Beshe, 1866?-1913?)

III)Dash-den-zhoos (1860?-?)
/Kaydahzinne

III)Naithlotonz (1860?-?)
/Sheta (son of Chiva, ?-04.06.1876)
/Gotkliz (western apache, ?- before 1913)

[kingsleybray]

Don't have any comments or information, other than nice work coeurrouge in starting up this genealogy of Cochise. These people, Lakota, Apache, whatever, can only be really understood in terms of the social groupings in which their lives were embedded.

I'm rereading Ed Sweeney's great biography, and wondered if any new clues have surfaced to indicate whether Cochise's father was Pisago Cabezon or Relles?

[RomsD]

Hi, I am a Norwegian who has been interested in Indeh history for some time. I was thrilled when I stumbled over this page - so many brilliant people in here. (excuse for my a bit limited English).
I am specially interested in the apache war 61-86 and Cochise and his relatives. I found a picture of a group of Chiricahuas at Carlisle just arrived from Fort Marion -created/published 1886 November 4th. The subtext mentions the following names: Hugh Chee, Bishop Eatennah, Ernest Hogee, Humphrey Escharzay, Samson Noran, Basil Ekarden, Clement Seanilzay, Beatrice Kiahtel, Janette Pahgostatum, Margaret Y. Nadasthilah, Fred'k Eskelsejah. My question is: The Hugh Chee on the picture (probably back row left) can he be Cochise's stepson Chee?

Attachments:

[coeurrouge]

Hi Norway and Welcome

Hugh Chee (who was around 15 years old on the photo) was the son of Chee. He was a Chihenne/Chokonen Chiricahua, mostly always identified as a Chihenne because of his mother. He mostly not known a lot his father because Chee was killed on 1877, on a fight between Chihennes and Bedonkohe or Chokonen.

Chee certainly married at the end of the 1860s' or of the beginning 1870s' on the Biduye's (Victorio) gota.

[RomsD]

Thank you for your answer Red Heart!
I had to read me up on the phrase 'Gota' before I fully understood :-)
(found an ok(?) explanation in 'Western Apache Witchcraft' by K.H. Basso, p. 23)