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Post by naiches2 on Sept 22, 2013 14:54:58 GMT -5
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Post by Mithlo on Sept 24, 2013 0:06:23 GMT -5
Coeurrouge: I help you understand....OK? Nah-zis-eh and Nes-chila .....same woman....first wife of Jolsanny. She was captured with "TWO" young sons and "ONE" neice. One son was Adam Jolsanny and the other son was about 4 or 5 years old. The captives were taken to Fort Bowie first then to Fort Apache. In early 1886 on the return to Fort Bowie the wagon-wheel hit a hole or rock which knocked the 4 or 5 year old Jolsanny boy out of the wagon onto his head (on a rock)which killed him. That is why only one boy (Adam) is photographed with his mother. This 4 or 5 year old Jolsanny boy (name unknown)is not counted in your list-144. Now.....The girl in the photograph with Nes-chila and Adam is not Tsikahda (Rachel), future wife of Yahnozha. Tsikahda (Rachel) was of the "Loco family" which stayed on the reservation. The girl's name is Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy, full sister of Victor Biete. Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy and Biete were the orphaned children of the woman (Hair almost to the Ground)who was Nes-chila's cousin. Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy and Biete had a much older half-brother, Mithlo, same mother different father. Upon the death of their mother in 1876 the two young orphaned Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy and Biete were taken-in and raised by their "Aunt and Uncle" Nes-chila and husband Jolsanny. Their mother's sister was the mother of two, Benjamin Astoyey and Tsis-tohn Bitcheait. Now.....Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy, Biete and Mithlo were cousins to Astoyey and Tsis-tohn but were often times called brothers and sisters. Only Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy and Biete were with the Chihuahua- Jolsanny group, and are not listed in your list-144. In those days (1885-1886) Biete's name pronounced out and spelled as Be te with a B....Ve te with a V....and Pe te with a P. Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy show's up in a least 5 different photograph's among the captives both at Fort Bowie and at Fort Marion, and Biete show's up in 6 or 7 different photograph's at Canyon de los Embudos in Mexico and at least 4 photo's at Fort Marion. Years later after Carlisle, Biete married Nes-chila's widowed sister-in-law Gazie/Gozie (Ilth-goz-ey)thus he became the step-father of Ramona, Eugene, and Emily Chihuahua. Also.....One wounded woman captive from the Chihuahua-Jolsanny group was killed at Fort Bowie by a soldier who beat her head in with the butt of his rifle.(And we are called BRUTAL?  ) Who-ever she was, she is not counted in your list-144 either.(NOTE) This is family history, these folks are my family members and this info comes out of NO BOOK. I don't have this book called Fort Marion to Fort Sill, I don't need it.(I understand it is full of mistakes), one can choose to beleive what they wish, a book....a white expert or a Chiricahua decendent,....makes no difference to me......just trying to help so you can understand...........Mithlo |
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Post by coeurrouge on Sept 24, 2013 4:45:16 GMT -5
Thanks a lot Mithlo,
I advance.I do not believe one source than another, I read here and on the books and I try to do my opinion. My personal experience learned me to be carefull about books and also about family stories. Both can be false.
But I believe you because informations you share before ,it was truth. Sorry if I hurt you in your heart.
Antoher question, on the website "chiricahua apache POW's", it is written that Neschila/Nahziseh was related to Cochise's wife.
Was it true and from which side (Dosteseh?)?
Again thanks.
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Post by ulzana on Sept 25, 2013 14:46:28 GMT -5
What about counteza? She is not on Alicia Delagadillo's book, maybe she was know with a diferent name. What about her destiny?
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Post by ulzana on Sept 25, 2013 14:47:14 GMT -5
What about counteza? She is not on Alicia Delagadillo's book, maybe she was know with a diferent name. What about her destiny?
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Post by Mithlo on Sept 25, 2013 21:08:43 GMT -5
Coeurrouge: To answer your question.....Nes-chila "was not" related to Cochise nor either one of his wive's. Nes-chila "was not" related to Naiche's mother......she "WAS" related to Naiche's wife Nah-de-yole!
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 15, 2014 15:09:16 GMT -5
The fate of Nat-culbaye/Jose Maria Elias San Francisco Call, Volume 82, Number 76, 15 August 1897:  |
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Post by coeurrouge on Mar 16, 2014 5:01:08 GMT -5
Very interesting, thanks a lot ! it was one year of Atelnietze death. |
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Post by Dietmar on Apr 27, 2014 5:36:59 GMT -5
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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 27, 2014 15:12:50 GMT -5
Thanks Dietmar
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 6, 2016 12:54:32 GMT -5
We identified Pelcoy and Alchintoyeh. But who were the other kids on this photo. I think the kid on left was a mexican captive, no? From the kid on the left. Could he be Ambrose Chachu? The others boy around Pelcoy, Who were they? Is Biete was one of them? Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Nov 7, 2016 12:09:12 GMT -5
The third boy left is Jozeph Ezhuna, the eighth boy with ammunition belt is Regis Alchintoyeh.
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 7, 2016 12:40:21 GMT -5
The third boy left is Jozeph Ezhuna, the eighth boy with ammunition belt is Regis Alchintoyeh. Yes, I know that. I talked aubout the boys with nude legs and mocassins. The one between Ezhunna and Pelcoy and the other one between Pelcoy and Alchintoyeh. Happy to discuss with you, cela faisait longtemps. bye |
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 11, 2016 13:38:21 GMT -5
From the kid on the left. Could he be Ambrose Chachu? Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 17, 2016 16:46:22 GMT -5
Hello, there is somebody here ? Ok no matter. With maths, Fight reports and their casualties between may 1855 and august 1886, your help,some genealogy, instinct about the strong ties in Chiricahua's family : it miss one woman and one child in my count and between 20 and 25 names. I am not yet finish, but a new form. 144.xls (1.05 MB)in orange lines, people I am not sure of their identification. For example I am sure that Chihuahua escaped with 30 others Chokonens. I am pretty sure that Catlha was with his daughters, his son in law and 2 grandchildren. I am quite sure that the baby boy on the arms of Perico on the famous photo at Embudos was Harry Perico. The same boy with no much doubts Geronimo saved on august 7 during the Scouts attack. Soon it will be done, I am sure |
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) Who-ever she was, she is not counted in your list-144 either.(NOTE) This is family history, these folks are my family members and this info comes out of NO BOOK. I don't have this book called Fort Marion to Fort Sill, I don't need it.(I understand it is full of mistakes), one can choose to beleive what they wish, a book....a white expert or a Chiricahua decendent,....makes no difference to me......just trying to help so you can understand...........Mithlo
