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Post by kakarns on Apr 7, 2018 3:39:02 GMT -5
Hey, to „Lakota, circa 1900“ I have the following names:Yellow Bull, Rain in The Face?, Hail In Her Stomach and Long Feather. to „ Wild West Show Lakota“: the man on the right is Iron White Man I have recently viewed the photo that, you mention. Just wondering if, one of our photo Experts (here on A.T. site), would be willing to take a rough guess to the ages of the individuals in this same photo. Also, curious to know if, anyone else may think the individuals in the photo might possibly be; a Yellow Bull family ? Thanks, kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Mar 24, 2018 8:37:11 GMT -5
I don't know if, I can help but, will try. I reviewed some of my older notes tonight and made several new notes. In doing so, I worked on a new chart. The chart starts with some information about; Makes The Song (aka), White Rabbit and for now, ends with my relative, Wakinyan (aka), Thunder (aka), Thunderbird (aka), Dave Yakama Chief. Other relatives included in this are: Black Fox, Iron Cedar Woman, Shoots For Them, Thunderbird, Good Jumper (aka), Woodpecker (aka), Chasing Jumper, Kicking Bear and many others. I have tried to, include as much as, I could...with the time allotted.
I myself, wish I knew the names of the alleged, Chief Spotted Tail's 2 sister's.
kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Mar 17, 2018 5:30:52 GMT -5
In Refer. to the research request concerning Black Bird.: I am questioning the records I have on Black Bird and wife, Iron Comes Out. 1.) The document (Form 5--153), I have for Charging Eagle's marriage to Paints Herself Brown (Yellow), shows a birth date of 1842 for her. 2.) A document I have, states her parents were; Father = Black Bird and Mother = Iron Comes Out. [Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1823/oglala-band-structure?page=11#ixzz5A03rvlYP]3.) The records that I have concerning an Oglala - Black Bird and wife, Iron Comes Out is something like this; Comes Out2 (---) (Angelina1 (---)), born 1874 in Oglala Sioux Nation South Dakota. She married Frank Black Bird, born 1872 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 14 Jun 1926 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Face (---) and Red Bird (---). 4.) Note the ages of Black Bird and his wife, compared to the age listed for Paints Herself Brown (Yellow). HELP ! kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Mar 17, 2018 5:30:12 GMT -5
In Refer. to the research request concerning Black Bird.: I am questioning the records I have on Black Bird and wife, Iron Comes Out. 1.) The document (Form 5--153), I have for Charging Eagle's marriage to Paints Herself Brown (Yellow), shows a birth date of 1842 for her. 2.) A document I have, states her parents were; Father = Black Bird and Mother = Iron Comes Out. [Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1823/oglala-band-structure?page=11#ixzz5A03rvlYP]3.) The records that I have concerning an Oglala - Black Bird and wife, Iron Comes Out is something like this; Comes Out2 (---) (Angelina1 (---)), born 1874 in Oglala Sioux Nation South Dakota. She married Frank Black Bird, born 1872 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 14 Jun 1926 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Face (---) and Red Bird (---). 4.) Note the ages of Black Bird and his wife, compared to the age listed for Paints Herself Brown (Yellow). HELP ! kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Mar 17, 2018 0:05:45 GMT -5
Didn't know if, you'd seen this post yet Kingsley. Thank you ! grigoryev --- Skokpa, the founding wicoti of the Spleen band: was itself ultimately derived from the Minisala grouping. As such it was associated with the Brule (Sicangu) tribal division of the Lakota. In the late 18th c. it realigned to the Shiyo band, which is where we find it in the 1804 Oglala camp circle. Yellow Leggings, Bad Face wicoti headman in the early 19th c. -- was the father of Brave Bear and so the paternal grandfather of George Sword and Afraid of Bear. I don't know how he was, or if he was, related to Fast Whirlwind. Unfortunately my Oglala sources do not shed any new light on Iron Hatchet's role in the formation or re-founding of the Payabya band. They are familiar with Iron Hatchet, aka Black Bird, as a brother of Bull Bear, but are unaware of his Payabya connections. What has been made clear to me is that Payabya was an old band, long predating the 19th c. At the 1804 timeframe the Man Afraid of His Horse family was living with the Kuhinyan band which had left the Oglala circle and was shifting btw the Oglalas and the Sicangus. It returned to the Oglala hoop in 1818. Also, grigoryev, some of your reconstructions of Lakota band names are wrong: I have reposted my message to include the Lakota names. Later this year, Nebraska History nagazine is publishing my article on the Oglalas and the Atkinson-O'Fallon Treaty, which will include a full presentation of the 1825 Oglala camp circle. Hello Kingsley - In your statement here you mention a Iron Hachet aka Black Bird. Would you happen to know the name or, names of any of his wives ? One of Charging Eagle's wives was named; Paints Herself Yellow b. 1842. A document I have, states her parents were; Father = Black Bird and Mother = Iron Comes Out Thanks, kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Feb 27, 2018 19:10:57 GMT -5
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Post by kakarns on Feb 25, 2018 20:28:07 GMT -5
grigoryev --- Skokpa, the founding wicoti of the Spleen band: was itself ultimately derived from the Minisala grouping. As such it was associated with the Brule (Sicangu) tribal division of the Lakota. In the late 18th c. it realigned to the Shiyo band, which is where we find it in the 1804 Oglala camp circle. Yellow Leggings, Bad Face wicoti headman in the early 19th c. -- was the father of Brave Bear and so the paternal grandfather of George Sword and Afraid of Bear. I don't know how he was, or if he was, related to Fast Whirlwind. Unfortunately my Oglala sources do not shed any new light on Iron Hatchet's role in the formation or re-founding of the Payabya band. They are familiar with Iron Hatchet, aka Black Bird, as a brother of Bull Bear, but are unaware of his Payabya connections. What has been made clear to me is that Payabya was an old band, long predating the 19th c. At the 1804 timeframe the Man Afraid of His Horse family was living with the Kuhinyan band which had left the Oglala circle and was shifting btw the Oglalas and the Sicangus. It returned to the Oglala hoop in 1818. Also, grigoryev, some of your reconstructions of Lakota band names are wrong: I have reposted my message to include the Lakota names. Later this year, Nebraska History nagazine is publishing my article on the Oglalas and the Atkinson-O'Fallon Treaty, which will include a full presentation of the 1825 Oglala camp circle. Hello Kingsley - In your statement here you mention a Iron Hachet aka Black Bird. Would you happen to know the name or, names of any of his wives ? One of Charging Eagle's wives was named; Paints Herself Yellow b. 1842. A document I have, states her parents were; Father = Black Bird and Mother = Iron Comes Out Thanks, kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Feb 18, 2018 2:14:25 GMT -5
Back in about the year 2000, I found a Calico Winter Count Group, Migration 1825-77. Recently, I have tried to piece together two others maps along with the Winter Count. Therefore, trying to focus and study the time frame of; 1825 to 1877. Hopefully, it will help me understand more about the life of, my G.G.G. Charging Eagle. For example; such things as, the different areas he may have migrated to before finally, settling near Kyle, SD in approx., 1868. Also, the desire to learn about, some different circumstances Charging Eagle may have been faced with, during his (and his families), lifetime.
kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Jan 21, 2018 8:12:02 GMT -5
Dietmar - Thank you Dietmar for posting the photo for me on Jan. 14, 2018 of, "Her Good Road" (aka) Lucy Feather. [NOTE]; It has been stated that this may be one of the daughters of, my relatives/ancestor's - Frank Feather and wife, Close.
UPDATE - dated: 1/21/18 I have been trying to do more advanced research again concerning one of the wive's of, "Charging Eagle". ONE reason for this research is to, (a) try and possibly prove whether or, not some of my ancestor's were related to Chief Red Cloud.
I am referring to Charging Eagle's wife "Breaks Rock" (aka,) "Brave Rock". Charging Eagle married Breaks Rock in 1897.
Atten: Dietmar - In discovering one of your older Threads tonight, titled; "1851 Horse Creek Treaty names" (Fort Laramie). Dated: July 6, 2010 Included in the Cheyenne signatures of the Horse Creek Treaty, one of the Cheyenne's name was; "White Cow" and in Dietmar's translation list of names, you see: "Voist-ti-toe-vetz, White Cow"
Here's some of my old notes dated; 10/16/14.:
1.) White Cow Chief I b. 1827 married: Crow (aka,) Crow Woman [NOTE]: a.) Crow may have been a older sister to Breaks Rock. b.) White Cow Chief and Breaks Rock had son, White Cow Chief II.
2.) Breaks Rock (aka,) Brave Rock b. 1836 d. March 12, 1924- Is listed as the Mother of, White Cow Chief II b. 1852 (per Mike S. site) 2.)a.) [NOTE]: Breaks Rock was the daughter of; "Kills The Bear" and "Old She Bear".
3.) White Cow Chief II b. 1852 married: Mary Eagle b. 1853 (Mary Eagle was the daughter of; Prairie Hen, (aka) Prairie Chicken, (aka) Siyo b. 1832) 4.) White Cow Chief and Mary Eagle had the following children; Wants Him (possibly - ~aka~, Keeps The Mule)b. 1881 d. Oct.1910 [NOTE]: a.)Keeps The Mule b. 1881 is listed with Grandparents - White Cow Chief I and wife, Crow. b.) Wants Him married; Edward Woman Dress son of, Woman's Dress. Alice White Cow Chief - b. 1882
[ADDITIONAL NOTES]: 1.) A 1892 Census lists: Crown Head (aka) Crow On Head (aka) Brown Bull (aka) Yellow Bull I - with his 2 wives,: (sisters) Turns Over and Brave Rock/Breaks Rock 2.) A 1898 Census lists: Turn Over age, 73 - as head of household and has her sister, Breaks Rock age, 62 b. 1836 living with her.
Therefore, a few new questions pop up. a.) Was....Turns Over - ALSO, (aka) Crow (aka) Crow Woman b.) Would the only possible relationship to Chief Red Cloud be through, the Woman's Dress lineage marrying into the White Cow Chief II and Mary Eagle family.
Thanks, kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Jan 13, 2018 10:48:03 GMT -5
Atten: Kingsley: "I'm not sure if this is the proper place to discuss this but, I would like to say something. I met LaDeane Miller on this Board. He helped me for several yrs. on my lineage. Before he retired, he told me he wanted to share some of his files with me. He said something like; "there isn't anyone else he thought might be more deserving and he wanted me to have them." I got pretty choked up on the phone. LaDeane did allot of research for many years and even taught classes on how to do lineage. Now mind you, LaDeane only shared probably a small portion of his files with me. LaDeane was approx. 79 yrs. old when he retired. We have not spoken for along time but, it is with honor I can share some of the work he did. I am very thankful for his trust in me." Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&where_board_subboard=70%2C51%2C16%2C29%2C43%2C71%2C13%2C60&what_all=Yellow+Wolf&when_days=7000&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=0&search=Search#ixzz544q2olYhUnfortunately, learnt a hard lesson concerning this. I accidently "clicked" on something in info. on my flash drive. When getting to close the documents on the flash drive that LaDenne Miller had sent me, I noticed the computer asked me if, I wanted to save changes I had made. I thought to myself...I didn't make any changes. I clicked the "No" tab. Funny thing was I knew right away I just made at least 2 major mistakes. No back-up file and erased everything on a 16gb flash drive. Sad Sad Sad momment. kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Jan 12, 2018 23:48:01 GMT -5
I found some old notes today.
Notes on Sand Creek Massacre by; kakarns - dated: 9-29-2013
[Important Note]: The Cheyennes with the wounded fled to a large Dog Soldier camp located at the Big Timbers (Headwaters of the Smoky Hill River). [NOTE by; K.A.K., Probably... Bull Bear's camp.] After a few days they moved to a large Sioux camp on the Solomon River. From here the camp moved to Cherry Creek, a tributary that flows into the South Fork of the Republican River. Here the camps consisted of Spotted Tails and Pawnee Killers Sioux. Some Northern Arapahoe were also camped on Cherry Creek. The war pipe had been sent out to the Sioux tribes camps before the Cheyenne left Big Timbers encampment. The Dog Soldiers and the Northern Arapahos also smoked the war pipe. All who smoked the war pipe and the Sand Creek survivors gathered at Cherry Creek formed a village of about 1000 lodges strong.
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Post by kakarns on Dec 24, 2017 4:19:20 GMT -5
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Post by kakarns on Dec 18, 2017 11:02:43 GMT -5
Thank you grahamew !
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Post by kakarns on Dec 18, 2017 0:53:05 GMT -5
I feel the need to try to write some sort of, small... "Summary To Date/Theory". For many years now, I've been trying to solve the mystery of, where my American Indian Ancestor's "Place of Origin" may have been. Where did we come from, back 6 Generations ago (200+yrs.) TIME FRAME OF THEORY - 1830'S to 1868 ; 1.) I have felt for time now that at least, Charging Eagle's Mother - "Starts Fire" and her family may have originated in the Minnesota or North Dakota, U.S.A. area. a.) Please, read #3.) below which, is from one of my post above. Dated; Oct. 8, 2017. 3.) Cheyenne research, Source - "Access Genealogy" website/part of a larger collection called "Indian Tribes of North American", states some of the following: a.) " A little later they seem to have moved to the neighborhood of Lake Traverse and still later part of them occupied a stockade town on the Sheyenne River of North Dakota near the present Lisbon, N. Dak." b.)"When Bent's Fort was built on the upper Arkansas in 1832 a large part decided to establish themselves near it but the rest continued to rove about the headwaters of the North Platte and the Yellowstone. This separation in the tribe was made permanent by the Treaty of Fort Laramie in 1851, the two sections being known respectively as Southern Cheyenne and Northern Cheyenne. In the meantime they had met and formed an alliance with the Arapaho, though there is no memory of the date or the circumstances." Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1411/charging-eagle-lakota?page=8#ixzz4vTK2XWYw1.b.) Charging Eagle and parents possibly arrived and settled in the state of Colorado, U.S.A. circa 1832. [NOTE]:Charging Eagle b. 1832 stated on the 1910 Census that he and his Mother were born in North Dakota but, his Father - "Grows Quick" was born in Colorado, U.S.A.. 1.c.) Charging Eagle had daughter, (my G.G. Grandmother), "Top Of The Head" b. March, 1864. Birth location; Rocky Ford, Colorado, U.S.A.. [NOTE]: Rocky Ford, Colorado was only approximately...40 miles N.W. of, "Bent's" Fort/Trading post. 2.a.) While Charging Eagle lived in Colorado, he may have been camped with the Cheyenne's. Including, Chief Yellow Wolf. 2.b.) Sometime during the time frame of the 1864 "Sand Creek Massacre" is when, I think Charging Eagle and family may have joined the camp of, "Chief Little Wound". 2.c.) Next, Charging Eagle and family settled at Medicine Root Creek near Kyle, South Dakota in circa 1868. Laters, kakarns I found some old NOTES dated; 9-27-2013 and wrote another brief summary to help with time frames etc.. Some info. may seem redundant. Brief Summary of Notes herein; compiled by; Kim A. Karns On; 12-17-17 a.) Fort Laramie Treaty of 1851 b.) 1858 - Gold and silver discovered in Arapaho and Cheyenne Territory c.) 1860 - Another Treaty was signed, changing the location of the Southern Cheyenne reservation. Although, provisions were promised by the Government, it was not enough to provide for the total population. This caused much anger. Soon, war broke out and a reported 400 - 500 Cheyenne were killed. Then next were the orders that they had to move again. They were ordered to move to Oklahoma. d.) 1861 - Approx. 100,00 whites had arrived in the Arapaho and Cheyenne Territory. Within a couple of years time, the Arapaho and Cheyenne were outnumbered and forced out. This has been said to have been some of the changes which, may have played a part in the 1864 - Sand Creek Massacre. e.) 1864 - G.G. Grandmother, (daughter of; Charging Eagle and Transparent Stone) - Pekokawin - b. 3.17.1864 - Rocky Ford, Colorado. e.) 1.) Sand Creek Massacre f.) 1868 - Another massacre broke out, killing hundreds more, Native Americans. f.) 1.) Approx. arrival of Charging Eagle and family at Pine Ridge. kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Dec 17, 2017 23:26:33 GMT -5
Just wondering if, someone could guide me to what THREAD on the A.T. Board which, may contain info. in my subject title. Also, have the other individuals been identified in the "September 28, 1864 Fort Weld, CO - Delegation" This is one of the photos, that includes Black Kettle.
Thanks, kakarns
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