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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 7, 2011 7:06:51 GMT -5
Bonne Année, Happy New Year, Nuevo Año, Chuc Mung Nam Moi, etc... Hi, Based on the identification and the debates that happened of those identifications, I made this photo-montage of the Last Band of free Native Americans who fought USA. Those people are the all of them at their surrender at Skeleton Canyon. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Dec 12, 2010 4:44:52 GMT -5
Sorry, I am not control all the tools of the net. this is the paint I talked before. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Dec 12, 2010 4:42:09 GMT -5
I found this pictures of Juh, both on the net. One seems certain. It was a paint from a female artist who met Juh on San Carlos during the short living of the chief on the reservation (dec.1879 - sept.1881). The second, the photo was not certain. But where I found this one, someone by comparison, said that the man, in the center, was certainly Juh because he looked like Juh on the paint. I believe of that thinking, not surely yet. But the man in the center had a strong physic like Juh and looked like the painted Apache identified of Juh. If juh gave is time to an artist for a paint, he certainly gave less time for a photographer. By logical thought, I concluded that the young men beside him were his oldest sons Delzhinne and Daklegon. Does anyone see this photo, before; can invalidate or confirm my belief; have this photo with higher quality? Attachments:
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Taza
Dec 11, 2010 16:18:45 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Dec 11, 2010 16:18:45 GMT -5
Chose promise, chose due... sorry, it's words from France. It means. things promised, things done..
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Taza
Dec 7, 2010 16:37:23 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Dec 7, 2010 16:37:23 GMT -5
About Victorio,
I want to reply to Inkpaduta 1981. i think the known photos of Victorio are right.
Why I think that, because ( when I could post them), look the photos of Victorio and Istee,his survivor's son at the same age. Put hair on Istee and you would see Victorio.
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Post by coeurrouge on Dec 7, 2010 16:16:33 GMT -5
For Perico's wish. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Dec 7, 2010 15:32:42 GMT -5
Hi,
This men seemed to be the same, but I don't think they were.
Look very carefully their nose, especially the end of it. On the Fly photo, the end of the nose looks more flat and big than the man on the Randall photo.
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 26, 2010 7:07:52 GMT -5
On Yellow Wolf, I do understand that : he had at less 2 younger brothers, Big Man and Red Sun. He had 2 sons, Red Moon who lived on reservation and an adoptive son, Walking Coyote killed on 1855 by an Arapaho.
What do you know abut this chief?
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 23, 2010 12:09:21 GMT -5
Thank you very much,
Have you the year of birth and death of Stone Forehead's Children, please?
On Yellow Wolf, I do understand that : he had at less 2 younger brothers, Big Man and Red Sun. He had 2 sons, Red Moon who lived on reservation and an adoptive son, Walking Coyote killed on 1855 by an Arapaho.
What do you know abut this chief?
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 17, 2010 7:05:53 GMT -5
Thanks !
On Stone Forehead, I 've got this :
I just know that he had 3 sons ( Tall Wolf, Black Hairy Dog and Fox Tail) and 1 daughter who married a Dog Soldiers warrior. I don't know the year of their birth.
I don't know nor the name of the brothers and sisters of the chief neither of his parents.
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 12, 2010 11:16:05 GMT -5
Hi,
I need somebody to help me to complet or correct the genealogy I build of chief Dull Knife for my website.
I had nothing of his parents. I think his father or an uncle was a chief. He seemed to have a sister but I don't know if he had others brothers and sisters.
I think understand that he married three times and had 4 sons and 7 daughters. First with a woman nicknamed Well Beloved who commited suicide, in the 1850', when Dull Knife take a second spouse. With Well Beloved, he maybe had a son Bull Hump and a daughter Comenhah(?).
His second wife was Pawnee Woman. This woman gave another son to Dull Knife, Little Hump killed on january 9th, 1879.
He married a third wife, Short One dieing on autumn 1878, at the end of the 1850' or in the beginning of the 1860'. 2 sons of this union went on earth: Goose Feather, killed on novembre 25th, 1876 and Georges, borned on 1875.
If somebody can give informations about this people, I will thank her or him.
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 11, 2010 12:02:56 GMT -5
I am agree with you. I have not finished to read yet. it is a book with lot of informations of Loco's family, the context of his time which presents Loco as a real peacemaker with a great courage. It says little of the first fifty years of the chief, it was disapointed. Sure Loco was in the right way for the surviving of his People, but, but... The author always find excuses to justify the bad action of Loco (the objective of Loco permitted him to do so but Victorio and Geronimo had no excuses). Loco was alcoholic, so many white men were too. Yes but U.Grant without the Civil War would not have the same career because of he was alcoholic. And Victorio, Mangas Coloradas and Cochise were never said to be alcoholic by the whites. (they drunk too but stayed sober for important meeting with the whites) Loco scheduled the murderer with Nana ( the man who fought WITH Victorio and liked very much the inveterate warrior Kaathenay) of the Pajitas' brother (first time I heard about that) but The author wrote Loco have to do it to save the peace. May be but Loco doing that, divided definitively the Chihennes. And the author said that agent Tiffany was an agent that offered plenty of opportunity for the Chiricahuas !!! I always read that Tiffanny was the worst San Carlos'agent. I will wait to have Last Sweenye's book (christmas gift) to have a definitive opinion on Loco's book but it seems like Katherine Chamberlain's Victorio (this contains big mistakes). The authors had done, on my opinion, a light job on researches to write their books. My advice : don't buy it, ask on this forum to have informations on Loco.
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 7, 2010 6:01:19 GMT -5
Hi,
I am building the Cheyenne pages of my website (www.redroad.fr) but I do not find lots informations of genealogy about Cheyenne Chiefs. I found some but incomplete. I'm looking for informations of the father, mother,women and children (name, age etc) of this chiefs: Dull Knife, Little Wolf (northern chief), White Bull (Ice), Lame White Man, Two Moon, old Yellow Wolf (who died at San Creek), Tall Bull, Stone Forehead, Bull Bear and Stone Calf. Is there any picture of Stone Forehead? Thanks .
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 6, 2010 13:32:39 GMT -5
The man is named Buck Kehlh. It is a Curtis's photo taken on 1906. The man is certainly an Apache from San Carlos or from the White mountain reservation.
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 6, 2010 6:07:57 GMT -5
Hi, I am new and happy to be here. Thanks all of you for your informations, it allows me to add those on my website (www.redroad.fr). I am maybe wrong but I am deeply convince that El Cautivo and Geronimo were the same man. In Cochise's Book, Sweeney closed immediatly the idea of Lnt Sladen that Geronimo and El Cautivo were the same. I explain why I think Sladen is right:
*The two leaders were both Bedonkohes, speaking spanish, seems th have the same body and had the same behavior of inveterate raiders. *Both became leaders of Bedonkohe local group on the 1850'. *El Cautivo was very closed of Mangas Coloradas and Cochise. Geronimo always said that he was closed of this main Chiricahuas Chiefs. *On Angie Debo's Geronimo, the shaman said that one time his rancheria was attacked by Mexican Troops, when lot of warriors were absent, and his wife,Nana-Tha-Thtith was killed with her chid and with others women and children. 4 prisonners were taken.On Mangas'book, Sweeney wrote that on december, 13th, 1858, Escalante attacked, on the Otates Monts, a rancheria certainly of El Cautivo, killed 18 people, most of them were women and children and took 4 prisonners. *Geronimo said that just after the death of Mangas Coloradas, he became the Bedonkohe Band Chief. The most powerful known leaders of the Bedonkohe at this time were Luis (an obscur son of Mangas, killed on 1864) and El Cautivo. * When Cochise met Howard, El Cautivo was presented as a warlike Cochise's captain. In Geronimo legend, it is said that Geronimo was the leader of the young and warlike warriors of Cochise. * When El Cautivo disappeared from Cochise's Book , Geronimo appeared and officials reports. (Like Fuerte and Mangas Coloradas).
Sweeney wrote (of the Sladen's idea) that it wasn't possible because El Cautivo means The Prisonner and Geronimo never said he was caught before 1877. But, Sweeney was the first to discover that Cochise was a prisonner during 6 weeks at Fronteras, on 1848.
It is why I believe on my idea that El Cautivo and Geronimo were the same man. I am very interresting of your opinions. (sorry for my english, it is not my maternal language)
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