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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 24, 2011 13:26:24 GMT -5
here's the complete image. now that's a tough one... can't say I agree, neither can I say that I completely disagree... I see the resemblance around mouth and nose, but it seems that Yanozha has different features around the chin... To know, if he is Yanozha, we have to compare, down of the right eye. For the unknown man (or the man we are disagree) there is a dot on the down eyelip. The resolution of the photo I get of Yanozha do not allow to compare and answer.
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 24, 2011 12:54:34 GMT -5
Third Round : I hope you can open the objetc with this message. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 24, 2011 7:30:22 GMT -5
Ejonah was wife of Naculbaye so Alcintoyeh, her son, was son of Naculbaye, not of Atelnietze ?!!
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 21, 2011 15:41:32 GMT -5
I am certain the man with mr Bruce is, despite the Bruce family tradition, not Geronimo who never was allowed to visit Fort Marion. Also, he does not look like the old warrior. I agree with Naiches it is Cathlay (Colle, Cullah, Curley etc) For some time I thought that the man usually identified as Laziyah, was actually Chihuahua himself, but the discussions in the Naiche thread convinced me he could well be Laziyah (who, in my opinion is also shown in the famous train photo). I got the impression from Sweeney's book that Tah ni toe was still a young fellow with no particular standing, and the image clearly shows a more prominent middle aged man... We can't be certain of course, but I doubt it is Tah ni toe and up to this point will stick with Laziyah... Coeurrouge, what is your argument for stating that you are nearly sure it is not Laziyah? I found that a John Tahnitoe aka Tah-Ni-Toe was borned about 1855..., so if it is right, Tah-Ni-Toe was older than Naiche. HAD the about the same of Naiche, sorry...
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 21, 2011 15:40:23 GMT -5
I am certain the man with mr Bruce is, despite the Bruce family tradition, not Geronimo who never was allowed to visit Fort Marion. Also, he does not look like the old warrior. I agree with Naiches it is Cathlay (Colle, Cullah, Curley etc) For some time I thought that the man usually identified as Laziyah, was actually Chihuahua himself, but the discussions in the Naiche thread convinced me he could well be Laziyah (who, in my opinion is also shown in the famous train photo). I got the impression from Sweeney's book that Tah ni toe was still a young fellow with no particular standing, and the image clearly shows a more prominent middle aged man... We can't be certain of course, but I doubt it is Tah ni toe and up to this point will stick with Laziyah... Coeurrouge, what is your argument for stating that you are nearly sure it is not Laziyah? I found that a John Tahnitoe aka Tah-Ni-Toe was borned about 1855..., so if it is right, Tah-Ni-Toe was older than Naiche.
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Taza
Feb 21, 2011 15:37:13 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Feb 21, 2011 15:37:13 GMT -5
you convince me
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 21, 2011 12:11:49 GMT -5
It is hard to say that they are the same man, Laziyah. I stay on my opinion to say no because they do not look to have the same mouth, the face under the medecine hat seem more thin... What do you think? Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 20, 2011 14:48:14 GMT -5
Sorry, Jamie sound to a girl in French, c'est pour moi.Aht-Ay was a boy
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 20, 2011 13:56:26 GMT -5
Is there anybody found a photo of Dilth-Cleyhen, wife of Mangas and daughter of Victorio? she was borned on 1848 and lived until 1926. So there is surely a photo of her. I do not find only one with her name...
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 20, 2011 13:46:58 GMT -5
By the way, I understand why Mohtsos didn't resist to be infidel, she was beautiful.
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 20, 2011 13:44:39 GMT -5
on number 5, she was certainly Nah-Dos-Te, wife of Nana. She looks very like the woman Nahdoste ont the photo, taken in Mescalero Reservation, with Perico, Nathleta and another man You have a sharp eye, but Nah-Dos-Te, wife of Nana was not in the captive group. After meeting Apache leaders and Lt. Maus (12 January 1885), she with Nana go to Canon de los Embudos for negotiations (look at Debo, Geronimo, 251-252. Naiche2, could you, please, show the face of the woman handing the tsoch (in this photo she has no number)? I think she was Nah-Zitz-Ohn who left the reservation with Mohtsos and became his second wife. She was certainly captured on august 1885 by scout. In the tsoch was the baby-girl of the couple borned after, I think, in Fort Bowie and named Aht-Tay. Zooming woman with tsoch. Where do you get info about Nah-Zitz-Ohn and Mohtsos? In Debo's book we can read list of last band. Cite from p.305: "Motsos, about 35, unmarried; [His wife and children were in Florida.]" About Nah-Dos-Te, what you said make sense, but the woman number 5 looks very like Nah-Dos-Te (maybe in the photo with Perico, she's not Nah-Dos-Te) with the mouth, the nose, the sadness of her face.. About Mohtsos, he left the reservation without his wife Bash-De-Le-Ki and their 3 children (Sweeney page 647). But he left with another woman. I find after navigate on www.findagrave.com, the photo of the grave of Aht-Ay, girl (borned on 1885, more sure early 1886)of Mohtsos and Nah-Zitz-Ohn. I guess that the baby was made between may and august 1885. She was certainly borned at Fort Bowie. And the women photo, she was the only to hand a tsoch, so I concluded that they were Nah-Zitz-Ohn and Aht-Ay. Thanks for the photo, Naiche2. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 20, 2011 6:02:11 GMT -5
on number 5, she was certainly Nah-Dos-Te, wife of Nana.
She looks very like the woman Nahdoste ont the photo, taken in Mescalero Reservation, with Perico, Nathleta and another man
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 20, 2011 5:28:37 GMT -5
I think this man is Yanozha. It is certainly a photo taken by Randall on 1884 or 1885 before the outbreak of may 1885. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 19, 2011 14:53:48 GMT -5
Naiche2, could you, please, show the face of the woman handing the tsoch (in this photo she has no number)? I think she was Nah-Zitz-Ohn who left the reservation with Mohtsos and became his second wife. She was certainly captured on august 1885 by scout. In the tsoch was the baby-girl of the couple borned after, I think, in Fort Bowie and named Aht-Tay. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 19, 2011 13:21:42 GMT -5
The children were certainly sold to rich mexican family. Young and beautiful women became the non-official second wife of Chihuahuans officials. The other women were put on prostitution and certainly died soon after. On 1884, some of the women were release, among them Siki, step-daughter of Loco, and maybe Huera.
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