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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 8, 2024 15:21:03 GMT -5
Surely, he was maybe Chinche. I think the son tried to protect Father's memory. I think Juh in desperation, drunk to forget his band was destroy and his power let him down. This tragic day he knew the captives would never come back. I think he drunk to much tring to do a crazy thing with his horse and failed mortally or he commited suicide, but I didn't believe that even the time was very desperate for him. Juh was always straight of his way of life : living in Mexico, in the beloved Sierra Madre and fight the hatred Mexicans. I want to correct my though about this. Daklugie was certainly right when he said Ponce was present near his father lying to death. But I think in his mind Ponce was the same man we know as Chinche, younger brother of Ponce, close to the Nednhi following Nana. Chinche was certainky also known as Ponce Chiquito (like in Shaw's census in 1877 of Ojo Caliente reservation) and looked like his older brother. I believed more and more Chinche was present beside Juh when the great died, not Ponce.
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 17, 2024 17:05:32 GMT -5
It could be. About the child if he was from Djataize, he was a little boy (who would be named Roy if I remember right) born circa 1880. About Zhante in the photo I do not know.
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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 8, 2024 13:49:13 GMT -5
Hello and happy New Year,
Glad if you can but be carefull. We (or Historians) already identified the man Noche (Chokonen-Bedonkohe, relative of Zele) as Taza or Cathla (a Chokonen leader who made the trip with Taza in Washington in summer of 1876) as Taza.
What is sure is that Taza was very strong maybe heavy for an Apache. Good luck.
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 13, 2023 7:26:50 GMT -5
have you an idea when this photo was taken ?
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Post by coeurrouge on Sept 8, 2023 11:49:01 GMT -5
Hello my question is and where are the white mountain apache are they included in your research. Victorios band also it’s just a question no insult intended Hello, no offense, my research is only about the bands that the Americans assimilated them as Chiricahuas. About the White Mountains I understand some, but not too much.
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 21, 2023 8:44:54 GMT -5
Thanks but I am not read German. Is there information about Big Charley or Charley born circa 1868 and scout between 1888 and 1894 ?
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 21, 2023 8:43:50 GMT -5
thanks again but some disappointed. The date will correspond but Big John was then not Big Charley the nephew of Naiche...
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Cochise
Jul 17, 2023 16:08:41 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Jul 17, 2023 16:08:41 GMT -5
photo montage I make (just put eyes of Naiche on the face of the warrior on the left). Could be possible that the warrior on the left was Cochise? Your guess.
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Post by coeurrouge on Jul 5, 2023 3:00:47 GMT -5
I can't say with any proven certainty, but I believe the two photos above depict two different men, probably not the same person. One man has a more tenaciously fierce and fearless face, which also appears far more combat 'battle hardened' to my eyes, than the other man does. The two photos were different men. Left a man that a French editor write to be possibly Cochise Right : Naiche youngest son of Cochise who was well known to looks like his father.
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Cochise
Jul 4, 2023 11:44:22 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Jul 4, 2023 11:44:22 GMT -5
efficient as always. Do you have the name of the photographer, please? The goal was to know if this photographer was near Camp Mogollon during August 1870 (the short period Cochise was there). Because I hope he was Cochise but I have much doubts. But the model of the winchester is holding seems to be a 1866's model (not 1873 or 1876, but I am not a winchester's specialist).
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Post by coeurrouge on Jul 3, 2023 15:26:01 GMT -5
Hi everybody, it was a long time. I just find that. I will research by myself but is there somebody can identify this Apache? It is in the front page of the new édtion, in French, of Sweeney's Biography of Cochise. It is maybe a draw but I think is a photo. The man seems to be alchesay but I not sure and it is well known that Cochise and Alchesay did not belong to the same tribe and were not related, so it is weared Alchesay could be in the front page of a book about Cochise. If he was not Alchesay who was he? in the first page the editor of the collection write that the photo could be Cochise. The photo was intitulated "San Carlos Western Apache, Unkown, summer 1870". By reflexion thaht Cochise was not known by White people near fort Apache and that Cochise came discretly with some of his Chiricahuas to rest some monthes, the editor think the photograph took the photo of Cochise without know who really he was. I am surprised that I read this from a french before an American express this; But the man looks like Naiche (right eye moslty).
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Post by coeurrouge on May 28, 2023 14:19:35 GMT -5
I think he was Zhonne
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Post by coeurrouge on May 3, 2023 10:41:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the wonderful info. Is it me or am I missing Gordo (Nahzazi) who was a principal Bedonkohe headman and died in 1883? Gordo (Nay-zar-zee or Nahzazi) seemed to have been killed 29th of April 1882 during the Rio Aliso slaughter. Santa lucia Gota Asquecoga (c.1750 - 1813) chief (1785 - 1813), father of Tu-es-eh (born c.1790), brother of El Chiquito. Kan-da-zis-tlishishen (Fuerte/Mangas Coloradas c.1790 - 1863) chief (1813 - 1863), Bedonkohe band chief (1825-1850), Tribal chief (1840 -1850). Possibly a grandson of Chafalote by a daughter. Bedonkohe, he had four wives during his life. His first was Tu-es-eh. With her his sons were Cascos, Salvador and Seth-mooda (c.1830 - 1863); his daugthers were Dos-teh-seh (c.1815 - 1916) first wife of Cochise and Nahke-desah (c.1825 - ?) wife of Goonelah. His second wife was a Mexican woman nicknamed Carmen (who he certainly married between 1815 and 1825) and was certainly killed in 1837. With his third wife (a Chiricahua)also killed in 1837, he had other sons, born c.1830 and 1836, Cassori (Lopez) and Thastine (Tomaso Coloradas). After 1837 to replace the two killed wives, I think he married a fourth wife with she, he had a son Mangus (c.1840,1845 - 1901) and a daughter Ilthooda (c.1855 - ?), surely firt wife of Chie. Chaha (José Mangas, c.1810-1868) chief (1863 -1868) brother of Mangas Coloradas and possibly his adopted son, after the death of their parents. Nay-zar-zee (Gordo, c.1820 - 1882) chief (1868 - 1878)Pedes-klinje (Chatto, c.1854 - 1934) chief (1878 -1900), son of José Mangas.
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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 30, 2023 4:21:07 GMT -5
Hello Coeurrouge, very impressive work. Certainly, appreciated my all of us. I was intrigued with the Spanish name Peñon that you used to identify Pionseney. As a descendent of Pionseney's Band, I am interested in learning as much as possible about him. Is there any information available under his Spanish name? Translation of Peñon is steep may be in relation of the behaviour of Pionsonay. Or possible that Americans wrote peñon a word written piñon (meaning pinion) because the "e" in english has the same sound than the "i" in latin language. I do not know
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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 12, 2023 5:01:18 GMT -5
Hello, long time ago. I sent you a gift, not perfect and not finished. first part of my biography of Naiche. enjoy reading Attachments:Naiche.pdf (6.57 MB)
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