|
|
Post by jinlian on Oct 16, 2008 8:21:16 GMT -5
Back to Jack Red Cloud:  On horseback (in the center) at the 1901 Pan-Am- |
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Oct 16, 2008 9:32:52 GMT -5
Wonderful photo!
I know that´s no news to you, but both Lone Elk and Hard Heart have both been photographed by Rinehart and others in individual portraits.
|
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Oct 17, 2008 7:43:51 GMT -5
HI Dietmar,
Actually, I've seen (or remember seeing) only the Rinehart portrait of Lone Elk - I'd love to see the Hard Heart one!
The picture of Jack Red Cloud and of the two other Lakotas comes from a website devoted to Arnold and his work at the 1901 Pan-Am. Unfortunately, there are only two or three pictures of Natives (among them, the well known portrait of Little Wound).
|
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Oct 17, 2008 9:07:50 GMT -5
I´ll have to look for an individual portrait of Hard Heart... but here he is (also with the two men from the photo above) in a group photograph, which I´m sure you´ve already seen:  Hard Heart is standing second row, extreme left Lone Bear is standing next, then Jack Red Cloud |
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Oct 17, 2008 9:19:09 GMT -5
Yes, thanks DIetmar, Grahame posted it in the first page of this thread.
|
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Oct 17, 2008 9:30:24 GMT -5
Two points that I wanted to jot down, but I don't have full details to hand. I've seen somewhere (where? - blame advancing senility) that Jack was known as No Lodge - I think the Lakota is Wokeya Wanicha, literally Without a Lodge. Wokeya is a tent, but not a tipi (the distinction is something to do with absence of smoke flaps).
Secondly, and I can supply the exact details soon, back about 1950 John Colhoff told my late friend Joe Balmer about Jack's marriages. He stated that one wife was Cheyenne, the daughter of Wild Hog, and that she was given to Jack during the Dull Knife outbreak period, in a bid to secure the Cheyennes a home at Pine Ridge. The other wife was an Oglala, called Kiyaksa win, i.e. Kiyaksa band Woman, indicating her band. Perhaps she is the wife mentioned in one of the
early posts on this thread, said to be the daughter of Big Foot. This is surely the Oglala Big Foot, not the Miniconjou. In some censuses he appears in the Kiyaksa band. He is mentioned in J. G. Bourke's diary as a holy man involved in the 1881 Oglala Sun Dance.
OK, I'll try and get back soon with the chapter and verse. If someone has noticed the No Lodge reference, please help me out!
Kingsley
|
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Oct 17, 2008 9:37:50 GMT -5
Kingsley,
I took the information on Jack´s nickname Without Lodge from the Weygold book, but there is no hint of any primary source.
|
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Oct 17, 2008 10:08:42 GMT -5
He stated that one wife was Cheyenne, the daughter of Wild Hog, and that she was given to Jack during the Dull Knife outbreak period, in a bid to secure the Cheyennes a home at Pine Ridge. Hi Kingsley, I've checked in Ricker's interviews (vol.2, Carter P. Johnson account of the Cheyenne outbreak ) and there's a reference to one of Wild Hog's daughters, the 12-years old "Blanche", who got wounded during the outbreak. In that occasion, Wild Hog was reported stating that he wished to see her, but not his "other 2 or 3 sons and 2 or 3 daughters because they were old enough to care for themselves.". "Blanche" should have been too young to marry and in the other hand she was still living with her father as late as 1883. In the Sandoz letters there's a reference to a Julia Wild Hog and a Lydia Wild Hog living in Pine Ridge, but I suppose neither of them should be identified with Jack's wife, as Mari Sandoz doesn't mention the fact ( unfortunately, it looks like the original Wild Hog notes by Sandoz's father were lost). In the memories by J.H. Cook and his son Harold, Jack's first wife is only said to have been a Cheyenne, but there's no mention of her parentage. Her name is sometimes given as "Good Cloud" or sometimes "Good". The last census reporting her as Jack Red Cloud's wife is the 1898 - in the others, only Nancy/Poor Elk/Kiyaksa win figures. |
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Oct 19, 2008 6:17:49 GMT -5
Lydia Wild Hog was the daughter of Little Wolf, who married Bird Wild Hog, Wild Hog´s son. So we can count her out as one of Jack´s wifes.
|
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Oct 19, 2008 13:46:40 GMT -5
As promised, here is a round up of the statements about Jack Red Cloud's marriages in the John Colhoff letters (transcripts in my collection).
John Colhoff (White Man Stands in Sight, 1880-1954), letter to Joseph Balmer, of Zurich, dateline Pine Ridge, SD, March 7, 1949.
"I had a visitor today, James H. Red Cloud. Jim is over 70 years old, and knows quite a little history, his mother was a Cheyenne woman, name Tasunke Waste win, Her Good Horse . . . . Charley [Red Cloud's] mother was a Sioux woman and her name was Kiyaksa win (Cut band woman). . . . . Jim thought Yellow Hair [the Cheyenne warrior killed in the Warbonnet Creek fight, July 1876] was a distant relative to his mother, Her Good Horse. . . . Jim also said his grandfather on his mother's side, was a Cheyenne name Kukuse, Hog."
Letter of May 15, 1949.
"In the family of old chief Red Cloud, there were five in his family. The old Red Cloud was the youngest and only boy. Four older sisters, Alex Adams' mother was one of these and Maka Cega, or Dirt Kettle's mother was one. Eagle Hawks, Only Man, Short Bulls, Running Eagles, High White Man, Soldier Hawk their grandma was Red Cloud's sister, I had a list of kins to Red Cloud over hundred of them, and Father Zimmerman wanted it, so I let him take it."
[John's brief list is not exhaustive; another sister of Red Cloud's was the mother of George Sword and his brothers. KMB.]
Letter of May 3, 1950.
"Yes, Jim Red Cloud's mother is a Cheyenne woman. Jim's mother belongs to Dull Knife's outfit, the Cheyenne, who escape from Oklahoma, and they came to Red Cloud's village, when she married Jack Red Cloud. It is said, the Cheyennes allow this, by so doing, the old chief Red Cloud would defend them, but I guess the old Red Cloud still abide by his treaty stipulation of 1868. For this reason, Red Cloud was called coward and weak by his own people. In slang language, helavah guy. But the old chief Red Cloud could not see it that way, what Dull Knife wanted [was?] a protection. I believe Jim told me once, his mother was closely related to Beaver Heart, a Cheyenne."
Letter of December 5, 1950.
"Maybeso, I told you already, that Jim Red Cloud's mother was a Cheyenne. Spotted Crow told me, 'I think she was a sister of Beaver Heart, I am not sure, but anyway, this woman was offered to Jack Red Cloud to defend the Cheyenne who left Oklahoma. But Old Red Cloud would not do so, on account of his promise of the 1868 treaty. Spotted Crow, himself half-Cheyenne, and little prejudiced towards old Red Cloud, said 'hell of a man to run to for protection,' in Sioux (Inakipapisica)."
The Beaver Heart mentioned was, like Yellow Hair, one of the Cheyenne scouts engaged in the Warbonnet Creek fight. He belonged to Broken Dish's band, the outfit implicated in the Buffalo Hat scandal.
Kingsley
|
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Oct 19, 2008 16:10:37 GMT -5
"In the family of old chief Red Cloud, there were five in his family. The old Red Cloud was the youngest and only boy. ... [John's brief list is not exhaustive; another sister of Red Cloud's was the mother of George Sword and his brothers. KMB.] Thanks for sharing this precious material, Kingsley - about the above list of Red Cloud's brethren: wasn't there also a brother called Big Spider (mentioned in Red Cloud's autobiography)? Incidentally, I've still no clue about where Tom Hatch's information about Red Cloud having a tw brother does come from  |
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Dec 2, 2008 7:46:34 GMT -5
From the Wanamaker collection: 1913, Rodman Wanamaker with Crow and Lakota chiefs. Jack Red Cloud stands third from right (first row)  The man standing at Jack's left looks like Red Hawk, but I'm not 100% sure. (Btw, this would make a wonderful image for the home page- Absaroka and Lakota chiefs together, wow! I'm also posting a close-up of this in the Crow section). |
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Dec 2, 2008 9:40:50 GMT -5
Amazing photo! The guy on Jack's left is definitely Red Hawk. The two men standing at the extreme left are Wooden Leg and Two Moons (Northern Cheyennes).
Kingsley
|
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Dec 2, 2008 10:12:16 GMT -5
Thank you Kingsley - so, it's actually Lakota, Crow and Cheyenne...even better. ;D
Btw, I've two dates for this photograph: 1913 and 1909 (during the "Last Great Indian Council" held at Crow agency, where Lakota, Cheyenne and Blackfeet gathered as hosts of their old enemies) I'm inclined to think it was actually taken in 1909 - even remember having seen somewhere on the web a picture of Plenty Coups with Jack Red Cloud (didn't save it at the time because of its poor resolution - something I deeply regret now!)
I'm sure I've seen the Lakota near Red Hawk too, but no name comes to my mind right now. Maybe someone can help?...
To more frivolous details: Jack was amazingly tall - I'd say 1.90 m, considering he's as tall as White Man Runs Him who was really a tower...look at how small Plenty Coups and Medicine Crow are, compared to them!
|
|
|
|
Post by hans54 on Dec 2, 2008 11:55:32 GMT -5
The other man next to Red Hawk is Big Mane, a Brule Lakota. You'll fine more portraits of him on SIRIS, among them two Bell photos of a much younger Big Mane.
Hans
|
|
