Jack Red Cloud and Friends

[jinlian]

Eamonn,

here are the scans of the census records (1887 and 1897), Red Cloud's family is listed in the first one from record 703 to 719 and in the seconf from 213 to 219 (in this last records it is mentioned another grandson, Luke Slow Bear b. 1871 and James Red Cloud's children; also, about indirect descendts, in the same page, record 184 to 186, there's the Blue Horse family. Blue Horse was a cousin to Chief Red Cloud, son of his mother's brother)



uptiki.com/images/mkv57fa13oovgoic6t9y.jpg



uptiki.com/images/1jv8yflc75ndv7918q9.jpg

I'm still not 100% sure if Chief American Horse's first wife was in fact one of Chief Red Cloud's daughters; I'll let you know as soon as I get solid information.

Best,
Jin

p.s. I understand perfectly people not wanting to discuss historical details, but sometimes it is also awkward to write family information without being sure of them being accurate or not. Anyway, just want to reassure you I'm reaserching this with the greatest respect for the families' feelings.

[jinlian]

Maybe you already know this, but just in case: Wife of Jack Red Cloud (Good Cloud? Poor Elk?) by E. Curtis, 1905

Also found this googling around the net:

www.pandemicflu.gov/storybook/stories/will/will_shortbull/index.html

[jinlian]

"Dedication of monument of old Red Cloud Indian Agency site between Crawford and Fort Robinson, Nebraska, May 9 1932"

Left to right: Karl L. Spence, publisher Northwest Nebraska News, Crawford; A. E. Sheldon, secretary Nebraska Historical Society, Lincoln; Mrs. James H. Red Cloud, Mrs. Joe Richards, Joe Richards, interpreter and grandson of Old Chief Red Cloud; John J. (Zither Dick) Boesl, old timer and probably last living man who saw famous Sioux Chief Crazy Horse killed; John Kills Above, son-in-law of old Chief Red Cloud; Chief James H. Red Cloud, grandson of old Chief Red Cloud; Capt. James H. Cook, of Agate Springs Ranch; Agnes Red Cloud, great granddaughter of old Chief Red Cloud; Mrs. Charley Red Cloud, Mrs. John Kills Above, only living daughter of old Chief Red Cloud; Mrs. Karl L. Spence, regent of Captain Christopher Robinson Chapter D. A. R. of Crawford, which erected the monument.

[eamonn]

Hi Jin

Once again many thanks. This information is being sought with the permission and on behalf of Mary Ann Red Cloud who is trying to find out as much information as possible.

[eamonn]

Jin

I saw that photo and indeed made a visit to the site. I am hoping to return to Pine Ridge early next year and take Ina to Kyle for a couple of days so that she can stay in the new motel and do some research.

[jinlian]

Don't worry Eamonn - actually, I was reassuring you of my respect for the family, didn't doubt for an instant of your good faith, let alone question it. It's just that sometimes my English fails me and I don't succeed in making myself understood. My apologies!

There's a photograph - you may have seen it - of Chief Red Cloud, together with Jack and Jack's wife on their way to James H. Cook Agate Springs Ranch, taken around 1908. I don't have the book, but maybe someone on the board can post the image.

Also, in the Lakota women thread, there's a picture of Chief Red Cloud's wife with a child, one of Jack's children (Chief James or one of his brothers). Here it is, just for convenience:



If I come across other information, I'll post them in this same thread, if it's fine with you.

Best,

Jin

P.S. The scans of the census data were too big, even for my screen, so I've resized and posted them in smaller size, but left the links to the "giant" ones.

[eamonn]

Hi Jin

No apologies needed. Your English is fine your sentiment unquestionable and the information which you have provided is excellent

Try being Irish and living in Scotland where the aberdonian, Dundoniian and glaswegian efforts at english are like trying to decipher a foreign language. However due to our celtic relations we get by. I cant wait to tell Ina and the credit is your of course.

If you dont mind me asking where do you reside.

Regards

Eamonn ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[jinlian]

Fascinating! I always had a great love for language...but I understand you, here in Italy every single region has its peculiar dialect, often intelligible only to locals.

I'm glad I've been of some help to your Ina,

Jin

[jinlian]

Eamonn,

most probably you've already seen this photograph, and can solve a little doubt about an identification:



It was taken around 1909 and labelled "Chief Red Cloud: Three Generations", thus implying that the woman in western clothing should be identified as Jack's daughter. However, another source (Goodyear) identifies her as Nancy Poor Elk, Jack's wife.

[jinlian]

From Goodyear's book : Chief Red Cloud and an unidentified grandson (early 1900s):

[jinlian]

Chief James Red Cloud (don't know when and where it was taken exactly, sorry).

[jinlian]

From the OLC online database:



Chief James Red Cloud



Mrs. James Red Cloud

[jinlian]

I managed to get the picture I spoke of a few postings earlier (from J.H. Cook's book), here it is:



It looks cropped, as it has been published in 2 pages. From left: Mrs. Jack Red Cloud, daughter of Jack Red Cloud, Jack Red Cloud, Chief Red Cloud on their way to Agate Springs Ranch, 1909.

[grahamew]

Great picture!

[jinlian]

Re Chief Red Cloud's last daughter "Comes Back" mentioned in the 1887 census, I think there's a strong possibility of her being the girl mentioned by Episcopalian teacher Emma Sickels in this 1893 NY Times article:

query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9802E6DB103BEF33A2575AC1A9619C94629ED7CF
(clic "View Full Article and scroll down the .pdf file)

"In 1881 an insurrection was started by my telling the daughter of Red Cloud that if she could not obey the rules of the school she could leave. She was a haughty girl and left. She went straight to her fathe, who thereupon made incendiary harangues against the school and me..."

(Miss Sickel, "a New England spinster" as George Hyde put it is in most cases a most unreliable source - see the 1891 letter in which she accuses Red Cloud and Father Jutz of the Holy Rosary MIssion to stir up the hostile Ghost Dancers)

Here's how George Hyde, in his Sioux Chronicle describes the same incident:

"Even Red Cloud risked (i.e. enrolled in the school) his daughter again, but a short time after the reopening of the school, he went to the big building on an unannounced visit of inspection and found his little princess scrubbing the kitchen floor, a buxom white cook standing over her threateningly. The enraged chief almost frightened the female staff to death before he went storming off to his camp, bearing his rescued child with him"

James Olson, in Red Cloud and the Sioux problem reports a remark by Red Cloud himself to a Washington commission, in which it is said that his daughter stopped going to school because of bad health and "was sick ever since". I don't know what happened to her afterwards (did she die? Married and joined another tiyospaye?)