Chief Smoke and his family

[jinlian]

I don't know Grahame - maybe they married two sisters (or two cousins)?

[jinlian]

About Blue Horse, I have just found a reference which seems to be quite an oddity, considering the close association of Blue Horse's Loafer band with Fort Laramie and the US army. In his Life of George Bent , George Hyde reports the account of the Fetterman fight by Cheyenne headman Two Moons who stated that:

"The big Indian camps were made by Sioux under Red Cloud, Pawnee Killer and Blue Horse..."

Was there another Lakota named Blue Horse? So far, I've always thought Blue Horse (and Big Mouth) stayed in the area near Fort Laramie during the Bozeman war.

[kingsleybray]

Two Moons is correct, because there are one or two statements about this. Blue Horse and Big Mouth with the Loafer band were indeed located about Ft Laramie in this period, but in December 1866 Blue Horse carried tobacco from the post commander inviting Red Cloud and the Northern Oglala leadership to attend talks at the fort. The reaction was predictably negative, with the tobacco packages thrown in the fire by angry warriors. Blue Horse remained in the village however for several days at the time of the Fetterman Battle. His return to Ft Laramie with intelligence is noted in contemporary reports of the Upper Platte Agency; and there is a longer account by Lakota eyewitnesses in the A. E. Sheldon papers at the Nebraska State Historical Society. Blue Horse and several other Loafer headmen continued to act as intermediaries throughout the Bozeman Trail War, 1866-68.

Kingsley

[jinlian]

Thank you, Kingsley for the precious information. What I find most strange is the fact that Two Moons identifies Blue Horse as one of the principal chiefs of the whole camp - how many people went with him to the hostile camp?

[kingsleybray]

Hi, jinlian. There's no indication of the size of the party that accompanied Blue Horse, though I expect no more than a smallish group - that would be about right for a party of envoys. It's likely that they were doing a little traffic in ammunition too. Two Moons' statement may be a way of saying that all major Oglala divisions were represented in the village on Tongue River in December 1866 - the Northern Oglalas (Red Cloud), the Southern Oglalas (Pawnee Killer), and the Loafers (Blue Horse). The Southern Oglalas had gone north from their hunting grounds on the Republican River in early 1865, as part of the post-Sand Creek alliance of Cheyennes, Lakotas, and Arapahos. The Southern Oglalas began returning home in the spring-summer of 1866, but some were still in the north into early 1867. Pawnee Killer is next pinpointed in the Dog Soldier-Southern Oglala village on Pawnee Fork of the Arkansas in April 1867.

Agent M. T. Patrick reported to his area Superintendent H. B. Denman on December 26, 1866, dateline Ft Laramie, that "Bluehorse, a messenger from the hostile" Indians on Tongue River has arrived today. " . . . this Blue horse is regarded by the traders in this country as a reliable Indian". Incidentally, that indicates that Blue Horse must have been travelling as quickly as famed Ft Phil Kearny rider Portugee Phillips, who arrived at Ft Laramie with news of the Fetterman disaster at 11.00 p.m. on Christmas Day. Can't help feeling there's a story there . . . .
There is quite a lot of documentation on Loafer band movements during 1867-69, in which Big Mouth and Blue Horse feature.

Kingsley

[jinlian]

Kingsley,

believe it or not, I felt that same "story" when I read your first posting! . Well, that's good food for thoughts...

[jinlian]

Oct 2, 2008 14:49:53 GMT -5 kingsleybray said:

The Southern Oglalas began returning home in the spring-summer of 1866, but some were still in the north into early 1867. Pawnee Killer is next pinpointed in the Dog Soldier-Southern Oglala village on Pawnee Fork of the Arkansas in April 1867.

If Catherine Price in The Oglala People: a Political History is correct, Pawnee Killer represented the hostile faction of the True Oglala band, whose itancan at the time was Bad Wound ( who probably inherited chieftainship from Old Man Sitting Bear, American Horse's grandfather, the latter's own son having refused, or maybe being judged not fit to be chief - by then in fact the Sitting Bear/ American Horse band had already been "phagocytized" by the Bad Faces ). Little Wound instead stated in 1866 that his band "had been living in the Fort Laramie area around the big-talking Bad Faces for 2 years" and that they would return to the South Platte and Smoky Hill River Area. According to Price, Bad Wound too refused the war plans of the northern faction, so is it correct to say that the only Southern Oglalas in the camp were Pawnee Killer's band and the American Horse/Sitting Bear group?

[roberta woman dress]

i am looking information on woman dress, who he was and where
or what band he came from, my name is woman dress, and i know so little about this man. if any one could give some information.

[jinlian]

Hi Roberta and welcome.

There are two versions about Woman's Dress parentage (about the name: I remember I've read in J. Ostler's book that the name was given to him after a raid against the Shoshone in which he reported a woman's dress): Eli Ricker, saying that he was a grandson to Chief Smoke (son of Spotted Bear aka Bad Face), and Donovin Sprague who has him as a son of Smoke himself and a woman named Burnt Her. Both sources reports he was born around 1846 and grew up in Chief Smoke's camp, and then in what afterwards became the Bad Faces band. In 1877, he enlisted as army scout and was involved in the unfortunate events that culminated in Crazy Horse's death. In 1879 he joined the Pine Ridge's Indian police, re-enlisting about 20 times (for a period of 6 months each) and was wounded during the 1879 Cheyenne outbreak. Incidentally, since his family was part-Cheyenne, appearently Pine Ridge agent asked for the release of the Cheyenne prisoners related to Woman's Dress.
He and his family (according to Sprague, he married 4 times - his last wife was named Gray Cow) lived in Wounded Knee District. His last service to the army was the 1906 scouting mission to the fleeing Utes camp. Woman's Dress was also one of the informants for J. Walker's notes on Oglala culture and society. He died in 1920. His son was called Edward Woman Dress.

Here are two pictures of him, in native dress and as Pine RIdge policeman:

[Dietmar]

Welcome Roberta!!

Jinlian said it well... maybe there´s more information to come later.

Here´s the website of a young guy, Wendyll Smoke, who claims to be a descendant of Chief Smoke. There are very interesting comments on Smoke´s family on his site. Can anyone confirm this:

skin.bebo.com/daRoyalSmoke

OLD SMOKE'Z FATHER WAS BODY PARTZ & BODY PARTZ'S FATHER WAS STANDIN BUFFALO! SO DA SMOKE FAMILY COME FROM 6 N 7 GENERATIONZ!

The Smokes is original, because we have the name of the old Original Chief, & we go back about 7 generations on our family tree. Most of our people can't go back that far on theirs, or they only can go back to 1800's or so, or they don't care about it.

Also the Smokes is original because the Old Man Smoke, he wasn't just another great leader, but Old Smoke was a great warrior in battles, & he was a prominent & important Chief too! Old Smoke gave his life to the people, & he was a peaceful leader even during those times, through his people were feuding with each other.

Also his head-dress wasn't just another ordinary head-dress, when he walk with his head-dress on. It was so long with the trail of Eagle feathers, it drag on the ground, & Old Smoke was said to weigh at least 250 pounds, but he was muscular tho. His height was about 6'4 or 6'5!

Old Smoke's father was from the Teton Black-foot Sioux people, & his mother was from the Teton Oglala Sioux People. Also Old Smoke married 5 wives from each tribes, or sub-bands of the Great Teton Lakota Nation, but 1 of his wives was from the Cheyenne tribe, & He father 1 daughter & 9 sons.

[jinlian]

In The Indian Helper's report (1891) I mentioned in the "American Horse" thread. there's some information about a "Baldwin Blue Horse", former student at Carlisle:

"Balwin Blue Horse, returned July 6, '84; has been off with a show; he wears Indian and citizen's dress turn about; has done well at times; is mentally deficient. "

I wonder if this young man (a son of Blue Horse?) was the same individual whose picture was first posted by Grahame on the LBH board:

[W. Smoke]

Old Man Smoke or Sóta {pronounced Sho-ta} was born in 1784 & died in 1864 nearby Fort Laramie Wyoming. He was the head Chief of a major powerful tribe, the Hunk-pa-ti-las, later on, known as the Oglalas, of the Great Teton Lakota Sioux Nation. I mean the Original Chief, but now days some people don’t know or disrespect him!

His Reign: Around 1800 to 1864.

Old Smoke was a great Horses Capturer & a great warrior in his youth, & later on, when he did a great deed for the people. The people gave him each an Eagle feather, so after awhile somebody made a headdress & a trailer for him. When Old Smoke stood, it was so long with the trail of the Eagle feathers, the trailer lay on the ground from the back of him.

Old Smoke’s height was 6’5, & his weight was at least 250 pounds.

He had 4 Lakota wives & 1 Cheyenne wife.

Old Smoke father 1 daughter & 9 sons,

Daughter: "Ulala" Spotted Horse Woman.

Sons: Red Cloud, Young Bull Bear, Old Man Afraid of His Horses, Young “Smoke”, Old American Horse, Woman Dress, No Neck, Red Feather & Brown Eyes.

The adopted sons:

Red Cloud because his parents died around 1825, & Young Bull Bear because he probably was feuding with his own family.

All of the rest of them is Chief Smoke's biological daughter & sons.

I don't know where Blue Horse, & those other guys come in has old Smoke's sons, probably they were his other adopted sons.

Old Smoke was from the Teton Si-ha-sa-pa {Black-foot} Sioux, & Teton Hunkpatila {The Camp at the End of Circle} Sioux.

His father was Old Body Parts, & his grandfather was Old Standing Buffalo of the old Teton Lakota Sioux in the late 1600's.

Old Smoke’s brothers & sisters,

Brothers: Old Bull Bear & Spotted Tail. It was said: Old Smoke adopted Spotted Tail has a brother or they were actually close related.

Sisters: Walks as She Thinks & White Cow Woman.

His Leadership was shaken in 1834 & 1841.

Because Old Bull Bear wanted to be the chief of the Hunkpatilas, So Old Smoke had to split the tribe in 2 divisions. But Bull Bear kept on feuding with Old Smoke, & threw some dust in his face, & calling him & his division: the Bad Faces {Ite-Si-ca}.

Bull Bear’s division was called: the Cut off or Bear people {Kiy-yak-sa}.

But Old Bull Bear got killed by Red Cloud in 1841.

That’s how the name: Oglalas {Scatter Their Owns} came about.

In 1851, the treaty: Old Man Afraid took up most of the responsibilities of the leadership from Old Smoke.

Because Old Smoke made him as an Honoring Shirt-wearer in the 1830’s, & he appointed Old Man Afraid a main-headmen in 1851.

But Old Man Afraid was pushed aside when Old Smoke died in 1864, & again at the Treaty of 1868 by Red Cloud, the head Agents & Major General William T. Sherman,

The body of old Chief Smoke was sent to the Smithsonian Institute after couple days of his death, but 130 years later. The remains of Chief Smoke were return to the Smoke family in 1994.

On that War-shirt of Chief Smoke, that was a gift to Col. William Collin from Old Smoke, & now it's in the Smithsonian Institute.

After Old Smoke died, his son: Young Solomon “Smoke” & his grandson: Wendell Smoke tried to keep the traditional leadership going in the Smoke family.

It died out after Wendell Smoke died in 1920, but Wendell’s great-grandson: Wendyll Smoke trying to restate it today. Maybe one day the Smokes will see the leadership returned to their family.

The Pine Ridge B.I.A. Papers says: the Smokes are 31/32 Oglala.

The Smoke family is mostly Oglala, but also from the Siha Sapa, Sicangu & Minneconju Sioux. The Old American Horse & Woman Dress Families is apart Cheyenne, & not the Smokes.

There are 9 original Smokes who are alive today, & who are the direct descendants of old Chief Smoke.

Note: I have the full Smoke family tree, but it is under-construction, because I need little bit more information on it.

Contact: W. Smoke

[Dietmar]

Welcome Wendyll,

I´m glad you found us. As you see above, we already had found you

Thanks for sharing your information about Smoke. Part of it I haven´t heard before. I´m sure we all would like to know details about your family tree.

Best wishes

Dietmar

[kingsleybray]

Wendyll

Thanks very much for posting this family history of your great ancestor, Chief Smoke. I'm reading it closely!

Kingsley

[kingsleybray]

Wendyll

Can you tell us any more about the connection between Smoke and Old Man Afraid of His Horse. I was especially interested in what you wrote about about when Smoke made Old Man Afraid an honoring Shirt Wearer in the 1830s, and appointing him as a main headman in 1851. Have we got any more details on that?

Many thanks

Kingsley