Albert Bierstadt among the Lakota

[grahamew]

I've been in touch with the New York Historical Society about the Bierstadt photos in their collection and thanks to the efforts of Jill Reichenbach, I can tell you that this...



... is No. 94 Ogallilah Sioux, Horse Creek, Nebraska.

The NYHS sent a copy of this photo, but sadly it's even less clear than the one posted above, so it's still impossible to identify any of the subjects.

Not only do we still not have all the catalogued Bierstadt photos taken during his time among the Oglala, Cheyenne and Shoshone, but if you look at the list, you'll notice some numbers are missing; these photos weren't thought to be good enough to make the catalogue, unfortunately, so there may well have been more taken among the various tribes.

Here's a photo not posted in the thread so far: No. 90 Shoshone Children, Nebraska:



This is posted with permission of the Department of Prints, Photographs & Architectural Collections
of the Patricia D. Klingenstein Library, New York Historical Society, where it can be found in their Stereograph File of their Special Collections.

Thanks again to Jill Reichenbach.

[Dietmar]

Thanks Grahame!

[grahamew]

Not sure whether or not this is any clearer!

[grahamew]

May 14, 2020 14:39:23 GMT -5 elizabeth002 said:

Hello all--I have been visiting this fascinating thread occasionally for about three years now, and upon seeing all the activity since I last read it, I thought I should finally say hello, and more importantly THANK YOU for sharing your impressive knowledge of this topic.

I'm writing a dissertation chapter on Albert Bierstadt and his artwork from the 1859 Lander Expedition, and am very interested in his interactions with the Sioux, Shoshone, and other Native groups, especially on that first trip "west" in 1859. There's a lot of early scholarship on Bierstadt that claims he didn't go further west than South Pass with the Lander Expedition, and also some suggestions that he wasn't that interested in portraying Native peoples or that his interactions with them were limited. It seems like everyone here knows those statements aren't true! I share everyone's disappointment that the 1860 stereograph catalogue isn't more complete, and that even the photographs that have survived aren't more accessible (even as I type this, I notice that a number of the images you all shared previously have been taken down).

I doubt that I can add much to your knowledge on this particular thread--I have been writing about Bierstadt's "Indian Department" at the 1864 Metropolitan Sanitary Fair, wherein he hired a number of Onondaga (and some Oneida, I believe) dancers to perform in conjunction with the exhibition of his 1863 painting, The Rocky Mountains, Lander's Peak--but I'll be sure to weigh in if I see any questions that I happen to know the answer to. I may ask a couple of my own, but first just wanted to introduce myself and say thank you!

Hi.

I wonder if this is related to that? 




Bierstadt's Indian performers at the Sanitary Fair. While they were described in the New York Times as Bierstadt's Rocky Mountain Indian Shoshone Tribe, " The New York Tribune noted that the group consisted of Indians who's accompanied Bierstadt on his Western trip, but they were augmented by an Onondaga and some Cayugas from Syracuse. Are those women wearing fribged buckskin Plains-style dresses and does one carry a Shoshone-style cradle? Of course, it's possible, Biewrstadt brought these items back east and got his Iroquois performers to wear them. The man at the front also appears to be wearing Plains leggings and shirt, so who knows...?

Here's a sketch of the "Indian War dance" from Harper's Weekly, which leaves tribal identification anything but clear, but does imply there were rather more Indians involved than in the above photo:



Here's another photo. Most of the clothing would confirm these are Indians are from Upper New York State. I suspect the long underwear, as in photos of Plains Indians 40 or so years later, were either a substitute for body paint or to spare onlookers from embarrassment. Or both, of course. Again, though, notice the Plains-style fringed leggings and shirt of the man in the foreground:



If nothing else, this has given me the opportunity to re-post some of the images lost by Tinypic. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to locate the others... so if anyone has them, please post them. Thanks, in advance.

[grahamew]

antiquephotographicscollections.com/category/new-york-city/keyword/metropolitan-sanitary-fair/page/2/

I can't read the writing - I'm not sure they both don't say, "John," but I can't see what's after that.

[elizabeth002]

Thanks! Yes, it's difficult to make out without seeing it in person.

[grahamew]

Bierstadt in his studio following his first trip West. Note the painted robe (or tipi liner?) and other Indian artifacts on the wall:

[grahamew]

Here's an interesting article: truewestmagazine.com/article/portrait-of-a-mountain-man/



Might have helped if Bierstadt had dated his work properly. To my eyes, this is not only not Jim Bridger, but it wasn't painted in 1859.









It looks like John Nelson from Cody's Wild West Show, presumably made when he was painting other performers, like this one from 1888:

[shan]

Now I know that this is the wrong place to ask my question, but having looked through all the options I couldn't find an appropite site, so, I wonder if someone can help point me in the right diretion.

I have a vague memory of seeing some images of various tribal peoples who were brought to Europe not too long after the English and the Dutch in particular began to explore and settle in the new world. I maybe wrong about this, but I have a feeling that at least one group were brought here to Enland to be shown and entertain the first queen Elizebeth, which would place the date sometime in the late 1500's. In fact there more have been more than one group, probably representing several different tribes. Like I said, I believe that some of the court painters~ this may have happened in France as well ~ were commisioned to paint their portraits, paintings which were later reproduced as prints.

Does anyone know anything about this or name the artists involved, or indeed where one can get to see these potraits? And maybe more importently, what happened to these native peoples once our various Kings and Queens grew tired of them and moved onto something else?

thank you Shan ~ David

[grahamew]

cherokeeregistry.com/cherokee-visit-london-in-1730/
www.historiamag.com/cherokee-chieftains-at-the-british-court/
www.rct.uk/collection/618859/cunne-shote-the-indian-chief-a-great-warrior-of-the-cherokee-nation-1762-historic

I thought I'd seen an oil painting of one of the groups, but I may have been confusing it with this visit:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Mohawk_Kings
There's more about that visit here: www.colonialsociety.org/node/781

[shan]

Thanks Grahamew

these are very interesting but not what I was after, For I thought I'd read somewhere that a few of these groups were brought over to Europe and more particularly England in the late 1500's, which places them in the time of Drake and Raliegh, but I'm beginning to think I got that wrong. but thanks anyway.

Shan

[grahamew]

Here's something on earlier 'visits':
www.voanews.com/a/usa_abductees-emissaries-and-showmen-native-americans-england/6202278.html
This is better, but it's only a review: TransatlanticEncounters-AmericanIndiansinBr....pdf (314.18 KB)
networks.h-net.org/node/16821/reviews/18857/bickham-vaughan-transatlantic-encounters-american-indians-britain-1500
And, of course, Pocahontas: www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk/oms/an-american-princess-in-london

[shan]

Wow, thanks grahamew, your the man to go to, for you certainly know where to go and look. All those sites were interesting and I particularly enjoyed the you tube vidio given by the man who runs the "Beyond The Spectackle website. I will try and contact him later on to see if he has any further information, for reading between the lines, it would appear to me that far more people were brought over ~ and far earlier than I had suspected, more likely kidnapped like those poor Inuit rather than cadjoled.

thanks again Shan