Post by penjady on May 17, 2011 14:13:06 GMT -5
In this post, I will identify the man in the cap that is in the CS Fly Canyon de los Embudos picture.
I have heard several names and I will lead along on my identification of the gentleman in question. Yes. I will identify him.
The Canyon de los Embudos photos are spectacular, to see the least. To witness a "marked" enemy of the United States and Mexico while on the battlefield is great!
By looking at the photos, you can really understand the Apaches fight against the "terrorists" (Sorry had to throw that in). You can see the eyes of the older people and the looks of the younger generation.
For my identification I had to use several sources: photos (of course), traditional history (passed down) and written history.
In the photos, we see a culmination of different warriors from various tribes: Nedni, Bedonkohe, Chiricahua, Warm Springs. So when I identified the capped warrior, so to speak, I had to look at these different tribes and families.
When looking at a high quality photo of the group, I can see the different items that a warrior may have on himself: knives, scarves, jewelry, etc. You can also look at the faces. There are items or materials or jewelry that can identify those people to their respective bands/families.
In the photos, there are warriors that have the white paint along their cheek over the nose. The white paint identifies the warrior with whom they fight with. White paint=Chiricahua.
The capped warrior has RED paint! A sign of a Warm Springs Apache! Again it is only visible with a high quality photo and can be seen very lightly against his skin. So with red paint across the cheek and over the nose, I started looking at Warm Springs Apaches which followed Nana to Canyon de los Embudos.
But guess what. No dice there.
So I had to look at the whole Canyon de los Embudos to get a good idea who was all there. There was Naiche and his group. Nana and his group. And Chihuahua and his group. There were a few Nedni scattered in there but most of them were with Mangus.
As the story goes, Naiche and Nana (and groups) were at this camp. That is when CS Fly took most of his pictures. The ones in the camp, kids with the rifles, naiche group and then finally the Naiche-Geronimo-Crook meeting. It is during this meeting that Chihuahua and group came charging in with very threatening poses against the US Army. Keep in mind, this is nearly after their famous raid thru the southwest US.
The following day is when they took the famous CS Fly photos of all the warriors along the hillside. And then the mysterious man in the cap showed up. Huge key. In the CS fly photos, you have all the warriors standing and kneeling behind some key figures: Naiche, Geronimo, Fun, Atelnietze, and the capped warrior. There is a significance in that lineup alone.
So the question is, who is he? He is very prominent. He is well dressed. He is standing among the others up front. And the only one with a cap. You can't be just a normal warrior in that position. You have to have earned that right to be there. Very telling signs of someone important to the entire Apache community...
The capped warrior is.... JOLSANNY!
When Chihuahua and his group came riding into the Naiche-Crook meeting, right beside him was his brother Jolsanny. Like I stated earlier, they had just been coming off their famous Raid into NM and Arizona and was back in Mexico. These two brothers and fellow warriors struck fear into the Southwest because they were relentless. They were always on the go. If they werent with Chihuahua, they were with Jolsanny.
Here is another graphic where you can see it.. Keep in mind, the older photograph was about 10 years later, give or take. the GIF quality is horrible. I tried different hosts.
You can separate the pictures from the first day of the meeting with Naiche, Fun, Tsisnah, Perico, etc., and compare to the large group along the hillside the next day, you can figure out who was riding with who. Chihuahua and his group was not there the first day hence they weren't in the photographs.
Having Jolsanny front and center in place of his brother makes sense. Other than Chihuahua, he was the 2nd choice.
There are only but a few pictures of Jolsanny. Some I posted above.
I haven't figured out the mystery of the Red (or reddish earth tone) paint with Jolsanny. I noticed that there are other warriors and other women that wear red paint.
As for the "mark" on Jolsannys right cheek in his hat photo, I have concluded that it is no more than a speck on the lens.
The identification of the capped warrior and the different names that were presented were kind of a mystery. I have seen it identified at Laziyah more prominently. I would guess that he would be identified as such is the confusion that all Apaches in the photo were with Naiche during his surrender and on the train going east. Using that logic, they used people on that train to help go backward and try to identify that capped warrior. So Laziyah sort of stuck.
So there you have it. I hope with this identification in place, we can still continue to work on identify the rest of the group.
JOLSANNY- 1821-1909- Chiricahua. Also known as Olsanny, Josannie, Olzanny, Ulzana. Brother of Chihuahua. He was a Army scout in 1881 against Nana and his group. When Naiche and group made their outbreak, he was with him. He of course led one of the best noted raiding parties into the southwest behind Crook's men. After the conference with Cook, he surrendered along with Chihuahua's group. They were all sent to Florida.
Jolsanny had two known wives- Nah-zis-yeh and Nahn-ish-klah. Nahzisyeh was the first wife. She along with her three kids with Jolsanny passed away in Fort Sill. With Nahnishklah, he had 4 sons.. one being Thomas Pel-coya. Jolsanny, Thomas and Nahnishklah all died at Fort Sill. His surviving two children, Richard and Samuel were taken in by their aunt, Tah-des-te (Tah-des-te and Chief Chihuahuas wife were sisters) and Coonie.
Today in Mescalero, there are numerous descendents of Chihuahua and Jolsanny still around.
I have heard several names and I will lead along on my identification of the gentleman in question. Yes. I will identify him.
The Canyon de los Embudos photos are spectacular, to see the least. To witness a "marked" enemy of the United States and Mexico while on the battlefield is great!
By looking at the photos, you can really understand the Apaches fight against the "terrorists" (Sorry had to throw that in). You can see the eyes of the older people and the looks of the younger generation.
For my identification I had to use several sources: photos (of course), traditional history (passed down) and written history.
In the photos, we see a culmination of different warriors from various tribes: Nedni, Bedonkohe, Chiricahua, Warm Springs. So when I identified the capped warrior, so to speak, I had to look at these different tribes and families.
When looking at a high quality photo of the group, I can see the different items that a warrior may have on himself: knives, scarves, jewelry, etc. You can also look at the faces. There are items or materials or jewelry that can identify those people to their respective bands/families.
In the photos, there are warriors that have the white paint along their cheek over the nose. The white paint identifies the warrior with whom they fight with. White paint=Chiricahua.
The capped warrior has RED paint! A sign of a Warm Springs Apache! Again it is only visible with a high quality photo and can be seen very lightly against his skin. So with red paint across the cheek and over the nose, I started looking at Warm Springs Apaches which followed Nana to Canyon de los Embudos.
But guess what. No dice there.
So I had to look at the whole Canyon de los Embudos to get a good idea who was all there. There was Naiche and his group. Nana and his group. And Chihuahua and his group. There were a few Nedni scattered in there but most of them were with Mangus.
As the story goes, Naiche and Nana (and groups) were at this camp. That is when CS Fly took most of his pictures. The ones in the camp, kids with the rifles, naiche group and then finally the Naiche-Geronimo-Crook meeting. It is during this meeting that Chihuahua and group came charging in with very threatening poses against the US Army. Keep in mind, this is nearly after their famous raid thru the southwest US.
The following day is when they took the famous CS Fly photos of all the warriors along the hillside. And then the mysterious man in the cap showed up. Huge key. In the CS fly photos, you have all the warriors standing and kneeling behind some key figures: Naiche, Geronimo, Fun, Atelnietze, and the capped warrior. There is a significance in that lineup alone.
So the question is, who is he? He is very prominent. He is well dressed. He is standing among the others up front. And the only one with a cap. You can't be just a normal warrior in that position. You have to have earned that right to be there. Very telling signs of someone important to the entire Apache community...
The capped warrior is.... JOLSANNY!
When Chihuahua and his group came riding into the Naiche-Crook meeting, right beside him was his brother Jolsanny. Like I stated earlier, they had just been coming off their famous Raid into NM and Arizona and was back in Mexico. These two brothers and fellow warriors struck fear into the Southwest because they were relentless. They were always on the go. If they werent with Chihuahua, they were with Jolsanny.
Here is another graphic where you can see it.. Keep in mind, the older photograph was about 10 years later, give or take. the GIF quality is horrible. I tried different hosts.
You can separate the pictures from the first day of the meeting with Naiche, Fun, Tsisnah, Perico, etc., and compare to the large group along the hillside the next day, you can figure out who was riding with who. Chihuahua and his group was not there the first day hence they weren't in the photographs.
Having Jolsanny front and center in place of his brother makes sense. Other than Chihuahua, he was the 2nd choice.
There are only but a few pictures of Jolsanny. Some I posted above.
I haven't figured out the mystery of the Red (or reddish earth tone) paint with Jolsanny. I noticed that there are other warriors and other women that wear red paint.
As for the "mark" on Jolsannys right cheek in his hat photo, I have concluded that it is no more than a speck on the lens.
The identification of the capped warrior and the different names that were presented were kind of a mystery. I have seen it identified at Laziyah more prominently. I would guess that he would be identified as such is the confusion that all Apaches in the photo were with Naiche during his surrender and on the train going east. Using that logic, they used people on that train to help go backward and try to identify that capped warrior. So Laziyah sort of stuck.
So there you have it. I hope with this identification in place, we can still continue to work on identify the rest of the group.
JOLSANNY- 1821-1909- Chiricahua. Also known as Olsanny, Josannie, Olzanny, Ulzana. Brother of Chihuahua. He was a Army scout in 1881 against Nana and his group. When Naiche and group made their outbreak, he was with him. He of course led one of the best noted raiding parties into the southwest behind Crook's men. After the conference with Cook, he surrendered along with Chihuahua's group. They were all sent to Florida.
Jolsanny had two known wives- Nah-zis-yeh and Nahn-ish-klah. Nahzisyeh was the first wife. She along with her three kids with Jolsanny passed away in Fort Sill. With Nahnishklah, he had 4 sons.. one being Thomas Pel-coya. Jolsanny, Thomas and Nahnishklah all died at Fort Sill. His surviving two children, Richard and Samuel were taken in by their aunt, Tah-des-te (Tah-des-te and Chief Chihuahuas wife were sisters) and Coonie.
Today in Mescalero, there are numerous descendents of Chihuahua and Jolsanny still around.
