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Post by Mithlo on Jun 14, 2011 11:01:37 GMT -5
I'm "thinking" more towards Os-kissay, the 13-14 year old WIFE of Tissnolthtos. (She never went to Carlisle though!). That other girl from the group photo is someone else.
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Post by bobby on Jun 14, 2011 11:20:29 GMT -5
Could the girl photographed at Fort Houston (San Antonio) in Bobby's reply 204 be Leosanni (also spelled Lo sahnne) for as far I have been able to determine, she was the only girl about that age in the Naiche/Geronimo group... I think this isn't Leosanni. Attachments:
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Post by bobby on Jun 14, 2011 11:33:09 GMT -5
I'm "thinking" more towards Os-kissay, the 13-14 year old WIFE of Tissnolthtos. (She never went to Carlisle though!). That other girl from the group photo is someone else. Are you sure about that ? (look for her face: same eyebrow, eyes, nose cheeks, mouth, chin). For me it's the same girl  Attachments:
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Post by Mithlo on Jun 14, 2011 14:39:26 GMT -5
Yes! I am "sure" about that! Os-kissay never went to Carlisle!
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Post by bobby on Jun 14, 2011 15:50:16 GMT -5
Yes! I am "sure" about that! Os-kissay never went to Carlisle! I hear what you are saying, Os-kissay never went to Carlisle. My point is that those two girls are so similar that I think that's the same person. So maybe the person you identified as Os-kissay on the photo from Texas is someone else. (some who actually went to Carlisle). On what basis do you identify the girl on the Texas photo as Os-kissay ? |
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Post by Mithlo on Jun 14, 2011 23:41:20 GMT -5
Because no girls/young women from Geronimo's group ever went to school at Carlisle and the "girl" in question is older than 10 or 12 although small (but not for Apache), and would be "looked upon" as a young "woman" old enough to marry! BUT.... Unmarried at that age her hair would be "worn up" in a "bundle"at the back! APACHE EDIQUITE!!!!!Her hair being down "means" she is a married woman even at her age! Not at all uncommon among my people! The only man among Geronimo's group with a wife so young was Tissnolthtos!!!!!!
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Post by bobby on Jun 15, 2011 0:24:03 GMT -5
Your argument makes sense, I admit I didn't consider the importance of traditional cultural elements |
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Post by coeurrouge on Jun 15, 2011 11:51:24 GMT -5
between Naiche and Fun : Oh-Kis-Say and Leosanni. Who were the parent sof Leosanni ? Angie Debo said that her parents were in Fort Marion when she surrendered on september. It means, if it's true and if I understand, that her parents surrendered with Chihuahua. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Jun 15, 2011 11:57:26 GMT -5
Mithlo and Coeurrouge, sorry, but for me this is Elsie Vance Chestuen. You are maybe right ... But we, with Mithlo, are maybe right. Can you enlarge the one with the white dot to compare, Bobby, please? Attachments:
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Post by bobby on Jun 15, 2011 12:25:55 GMT -5
For it's the same woman, but not Elsie. Attachments:
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Post by bobby on Jun 15, 2011 13:12:35 GMT -5
between Naiche and Fun : Oh-Kis-Say and Leosanni. Who were the parent sof Leosanni ? Angie Debo said that her parents were in Fort Marion when she surrendered on september. It means, if it's true and if I understand, that her parents surrendered with Chihuahua. I'm not 100% sure about Leosanni, because of the photo's poor quality. |
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Post by coeurrouge on Jun 15, 2011 14:15:46 GMT -5
The younger girls who surrendered with Geronimo were a baby of 2 or 3 years old, Leosanni, 6 years, Oh-Kis-Say 14-17 years and Nochlon 14 years. So on the photo, the one I Identified as Leosanni was the only to correspond at this age.
So I am quite sure she was Leosanni.
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Post by jeroen on Jun 17, 2011 8:34:45 GMT -5
I agree with coeurrouge regarding the Leosanni identification and I think Mithlo is right about Os-kissay... she fits the age of the girl in the image and I think he is making a strong point by providing the cultural background. Btw, in many cultures all over the world girls are considered ready for marriage when reaching puberty...
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Post by gailwoodside on Jun 18, 2011 4:18:21 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this picture of Rachel, she is my cousin. This is the only picture I have seen of her. Thank you so much, she looks just like me!
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Post by gailwoodside on Jun 18, 2011 4:19:19 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this picture of Rachel, she is my cousin. This is the only picture I have seen of her. Thank you so much, she looks just like me!
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