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Post by perico on Apr 30, 2010 15:46:39 GMT -5
I like Bay-kath-lay or Becalthey. He is chief of band of peaceful Chokonen exiled from San Carlos in sept. 1886 with Loco. Inf from Woodward B Skinner (Author): The Apache rock crumbles: The captivity of Geronimo's people  Where did you find this picture? I would like to purchase this for the Fort Sill Apache Tribe. |
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Post by perico on Apr 30, 2010 15:52:32 GMT -5
This woman is one of Chief Locos wives. Sorry, not I have - Molly, 1889  Compare Ke-nai-didlg, 1886  Kaytah, I wanted to ask you if you uploaded Buehman's photos onto Farwest.it. If yes, how can get it in better quality |
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Post by perico on Apr 30, 2010 15:56:30 GMT -5
This is Coonie, with his son Hugh Coonie taken in Mescalero. S verom u boga, za kralja i otadzbinuI'm think the man sitting under a Chatto is scout Coonie. Look at another photo  And man standing between Naiche and Chatto look as Kaytennay |
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Post by jeroen on May 3, 2010 4:14:18 GMT -5
Perico
born ca. 1852, also known as White Horse, second cousin to Geronimo and not half brother as often stated, also related to E clah heh, second wife of Naiche, his father Nas tih deh, was also the father of Tsisnah and Fun.
Zhonne:
born ca. 1865, Chokonen warrior, son of U go hun, but Beshe was not his father, half brother to Haozinne, Naiche's third wife, went to Carlisle, married Lozah following her divorce from Tsisnah, the couple moved to Mescalero in 1913.
I'll post more later ...
Shan, in my opinion the portraits do show one and the same man, so I have to agree with Charlie on this one, for a long time I actually thought the warrior to be Johsanny, Ulzana's son, but I am now convinced it is Tsisnah. But you are absolutely right that people can interpret photos in a very different way.
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Post by perico on May 6, 2010 9:49:26 GMT -5
Those 2 men are definatly the same man. (The Carlisle Photo, and the Canyon De Los Embudos Photo). Tsisnah. Tsisnah was a full brother to Fun and Jozhe, and a half brother to Perico. Charlie, I'm sorry but I can't really see the similarity between the two versions of Tsisnay that Dietmar posted for you. In my opinion the man I have always taken to be Ulzana in the various photographs we have seen of him, does not have those rather pronouced cheek pouchs and the slightly swollen look to the flesh above the upper lip that the man in the suit displays. Do we know how many other Photographs these two men appaer in? While I may be wrong---I know how different some people can look in different photographs---for the moment we will have to disagree on this one. Graham, once again we are i agreement, the man in the photo you posted does indeed have a look of KIcking Bear. Low Dog |
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Post by jeroen on May 12, 2010 3:33:22 GMT -5
 Taken at Mount Vernon, Naiche kneeling far left, Perico far right... |
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Post by naiches2 on May 12, 2010 4:07:18 GMT -5
The same picture with the identification of persons. Info from The Gallery of the Open Frontier / gallery.unl.edu/'Some of the mos tcelebrated apache Indians, now soldiers in Co. “I“ , 12th Inf. Under my command. 1. Capt. Tochanney(?); 2. Pvt. Too-is-gah(?); 3. Pvt. Coonie(?) (a trailer); 4. Pvt. Tiss-nolth-trs(?); 5. Pvt. Mithlo(?); 6. Pvt. Yau-o-zha(?) (celebrated trailer); 7. Lamipli sani(?) (celebrated trailer); 8. Capt. Nanlu(?) (war chief of Apaches); 9. Pvt. The Black Mangus(?) (a chief); 10. Pvt. Chachue(?) (a chief); 11. Capt. Kaak-tiney(?) (a chief); 12. Pvt. David Falty(?); 13. Pvt. Penro(?);Some of the mos tcelebrated apache Indians, now soldiers in Co. “I“ , 12th Inf. Under my command. 1. Capt. Tochanney(?); 2. Pvt. Too-is-gah(?); 3. Pvt. Coonie(?) (a trailer); 4. Pvt. Tiss-nolth-trs(?); 5. Pvt. Mithlo(?); 6. Pvt. Yau-o-zha(?) (celebrated trailer); 7. Lamipli sani(?) (celebrated trailer); 8. Capt. Nanlu(?) (war chief of Apaches); 9. Pvt. The Black Mangus(?) (a chief); 10. Pvt. Chachue(?) (a chief); 11. Capt. Kaak-tiney(?) (a chief); 12. Pvt. David Falty(?); 13. Pvt. Penro(?)' Attachments:
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Post by perico on May 12, 2010 8:15:13 GMT -5
Taken at Mount Vernon, Naiche kneeling far left, Perico far right... Back Row: Toclanney, Tooisgah, Coonie, Tissnolthtos, Mithlo, Yahnozha, Haozous. Front Row: Naiche, Mangus, Chatto, Kaaetenay, Fatty, Perico. |
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Post by perico on May 12, 2010 8:55:30 GMT -5
I cant seem to find this picture there, can you post a direct link?
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Post by naiches2 on May 12, 2010 10:37:54 GMT -5
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Post by perico on May 12, 2010 11:26:29 GMT -5
Thank you so much, Ive had all three of these pictures already. And the group of 13 people I had everyone but 3 of them identified. Be advised that my identifications are correct and are the correct spellings.
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Post by naiches2 on May 13, 2010 5:16:47 GMT -5
Who is Mithlo? From what he band of Chiricahuas? Maybe Perico knows  Lawrence Mithlo (b.1864) was one of principal informants of Morris Opler. I read his stories in Chiricahua and Mescalero Apache Texts'' (stories nn. 1 to 10, and 39; for example: 'The Gambling Game for Night and Day'). |
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Post by jeroen on May 13, 2010 7:32:29 GMT -5
Lawrence Mithlo with others at Fort Sill:  Lawrence Mithlo is standing fourth from left, Watson Mithlo in front row far right (just behind Dan Nicholas (lower right). |
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Post by naiches2 on May 13, 2010 7:51:55 GMT -5
Thanks jeroen!
From 'Orlando Sentiel, July 09, 1993:
Bill Watson Mithlo
Mithlo, one of the few survivors of the Chiricahua Apache tribe taken captive by the Army in the late 1800s, died Sunday in Apache, Okla. He was 105. The 34 men, women and children led by the famed warrior Geronimo surrendered in 1886 in Arizona after five months of pursuit by 5,000 U.S. soldiers, 3,000 Mexican soldiers and hundreds of scouts and volunteers. The Army shipped them to Fort Marion, now Castillo de San Marcos, in St. Augustine, and Mithlo was born there on July 4, 1888. ''I never fought with Geronimo,'' Mithlo said in an interview this year. ''I was proud enough to hold his horses.'' Tribal chairwoman Mildred Cleghorn, 83, said Mithlo was ''a very private person.''
From Sarasota Herald-Tribune, Jul 10, 1993
...Mithlo was born an Army prisoner of war July 4, 1888 and reminded his sons throughout his life that he had known warrior Geronimo.
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Post by perico on May 13, 2010 8:42:56 GMT -5
Who is Mithlo? From what he band of Chiricahuas? Maybe Perico knows Lawrence Mithlo (b.1864) was one of principal informants of Morris Opler. I read his stories in Chiricahua and Mescalero Apache Texts'' (stories nn. 1 to 10, and 39; for example: 'The Gambling Game for Night and Day'). He is Chokenen (Chiricahua) and San Carlos Apache. I know alot of things, don't hesitate to ask. |
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