chi1
New Member
Posts: 39 
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Post by chi1 on Jul 15, 2019 17:01:47 GMT -5
first, I am the most humble person here - and I should be. I am not an Apache. But I don't think that your birth certificate for Geronimo can possibly be right. From what I understand, he was born in the mountains of New Mexico up amongst the pines. Near the upper stretches of the Gila River. There were only Apaches there, and they were Bedonkohe people. So I don't think such a birth certificate can exist. But maybe I am wrong and somehow birth certificates were issued later in life so that Apaches could be written down on the paperwork of the people who ran the reservations. Does anybody know about this? dT Have found 1900 Census from Fort Sill, Prisoners of War, on this page row 11 appears Geronimo, he declares he was born in Mexico and that he doesn't speaks English. on same census, (not the same page) appears Naiche's and Chihuahua's families among others. (I don't have the rights for the document, hope not to be delinquent)  |
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Nahi
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by Nahi on Jul 16, 2019 3:30:02 GMT -5
Thank you so much for this census of 1900. Really interesting.
Although the date does not fit much, it is written here and there that Geronimo was born the 16th ofJune of 1829, and in this census it is written that he was born in 1834 which I guess is the date he gave not knowing it exactly.
He perfectly new he was born in Mexico. Concretely he was supposed to be born in Sonora in the north west of Sierra madre (Arizpe) and there is supposed to exist a baptism certificate dated the 1st of June of 1821 which in my opinion is a more accurate date. That certificate belongs to a church located close to the Bavispe river.
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Post by coeurrouge on Jul 16, 2019 14:03:56 GMT -5
first, I am the most humble person here - and I should be. I am not an Apache. But I don't think that your birth certificate for Geronimo can possibly be right. From what I understand, he was born in the mountains of New Mexico up amongst the pines. Near the upper stretches of the Gila River. There were only Apaches there, and they were Bedonkohe people. So I don't think such a birth certificate can exist. But maybe I am wrong and somehow birth certificates were issued later in life so that Apaches could be written down on the paperwork of the people who ran the reservations. Does anybody know about this? dT Have found 1900 Census from Fort Sill, Prisoners of War, on this page row 11 appears Geronimo, he declares he was born in Mexico and that he doesn't speaks English. on same census, (not the same page) appears Naiche's and Chihuahua's families among others. (I don't have the rights for the document, hope not to be delinquent) View AttachmentIf you had the one of Naiche, I am interested. To Chihuahua too. |
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chi1
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by chi1 on Jul 16, 2019 14:14:55 GMT -5
Yes, i will send you a message asking for an e-mail to share.
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Post by jasper4 on Jul 19, 2019 13:11:51 GMT -5
fyi when he who yawns was born it was mexico.
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natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Jul 31, 2019 1:34:27 GMT -5
Geronimo cant seem to remember where he was born. He has given an account to being born at the headwaters of the Gila river near the Mogollan Mountains, and he apparently says he was born in Northern Mexico? I guess it's not really important. I guess what would make it important would be for him to be given a pension for his Army service.
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Post by jasper4 on Jul 31, 2019 17:30:21 GMT -5
Geronimo cant seem to remember where he was born. He has given an account to being born at the headwaters of the Gila river near the Mogollan Mountains, and he apparently says he was born in Northern Mexico? I guess it's not really important. I guess what would make it important would be for him to be given a pension for his Army service. again the area of the birth was mexico as in before the time of US war of 1848 when the southwest became gringo country. |
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chi1
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Posts: 39
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Post by chi1 on Jul 31, 2019 18:30:31 GMT -5
If Geronimo was born in the surroundings of the Gila river in the 1830's (according to the census on 1834) that area was still part of Mexico until 1847-1848 that became part of the US, but he declared to the censor, 52 years after territory separation that he was born in Mexico, perhaps he had no a clear idea of territoriality and geographical changes after the war and because its imprisonment until the time of the census for 14 years, since 1886.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Geronimo dictated his memories to Jason Betzinez in 1905 and they were published in 1959 when Betzinez was 99 years old?
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Nahi
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Posts: 45
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Post by Nahi on Aug 1, 2019 8:46:53 GMT -5
Hi Chi 1,
It was dictated in 1905 by Jeronimo to Stephen Melvil Barrett, being the interpreter Asa Daklugie ( son of Chief Juh) who was born in 1874.
I think it was published As ‘Geronimo’s Story of His Life” in 1906 with the permission of the president Theodore Roosevelt, while Asa was 32 or 33.
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 1, 2019 8:51:15 GMT -5
I think the Chiricahuas understood in 1855 that all their country, exept for the Nednis, was no more under the Mexican autorithy. So Geronimo meant I think than when he was born, the Gila country was part, for the Whites, to the Mexican territory.
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Post by jasper4 on Aug 7, 2019 10:21:33 GMT -5
Hi Chi 1, It was dictated in 1905 by Jeronimo to Stephen Melvil Barrett, being the interpreter Asa Daklugie ( son of Chief Juh) who was born in 1874. I think it was published As ‘Geronimo’s Story of His Life” in 1906 with the permission of the president Theodore Roosevelt, while Asa was 32 or 33. item of note why would permission of president be needed. your info is correct yet barrett embellish it or he wanted it to sell |
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Post by jasper4 on Aug 7, 2019 10:30:57 GMT -5
Have found 1900 Census from Fort Sill, Prisoners of War, on this page row 11 appears Geronimo, he declares he was born in Mexico and that he doesn't speaks English. on same census, (not the same page) appears Naiche's and Chihuahua's families among others. (I don't have the rights for the document, hope not to be delinquent) View Attachment If you had the one of Naiche, I am interested. To Chihuahua too. census records are public domain. I find your input always good, or this spanish was primary euro tongue spoken via the spanish lay claim to the area. |
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Nahi
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by Nahi on Aug 7, 2019 11:36:42 GMT -5
Hi Chi 1, It was dictated in 1905 by Jeronimo to Stephen Melvil Barrett, being the interpreter Asa Daklugie ( son of Chief Juh) who was born in 1874. I think it was published As ‘Geronimo’s Story of His Life” in 1906 with the permission of the president Theodore Roosevelt, while Asa was 32 or 33. item of note why would permission of president be needed. your info is correct yet barrett embellish it or he wanted it to sell Hi, As you know Jasper, your two assertions are directly connected. They needed the presidents permission because Jerónimo represented the Broncos they could not control even having much developed means for it. (Remember how many soldiers did they need for his little band to surrender.) Jerónimo was very feared and indeed he put the army in very uncomfortable situations, as we all know. The US side of the story would not allow a weak appearance in front of the readers. I know it was hard for him to accept its writing and of course the Indian version was lighter than the one that would have result, if not inspected. If fact they read it very carefully when it was finished. It’s also fear to think that had he been free to express himself open wide, his version would have probably been more embarrassing for the US government, that what it really was. It’s a matter of perspective. |
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Nahi
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by Nahi on Aug 7, 2019 11:46:25 GMT -5
If you had the one of Naiche, I am interested. To Chihuahua too. census records are public domain. I find your input always good, or this spanish was primary euro tongue spoken via the spanish lay claim to the area. I apologize for I don’t understand your imput very well. The census says that he does not speak English but confirms that he spoke Spanish? Just asking. Now a days if I’m not wrong the constitution of Mexico does not stablist Spanish as an official language even if the 95% of the population speaks it. It’s a historical legacy ( fair or not). There are also almost 70 indigenous languages that of course come from ancient times so I find it quite logical Jerónimo to speak any of the languages mentioned above, being he Mexican. |
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Post by jasper4 on Aug 14, 2019 13:17:01 GMT -5
first, I am the most humble person here - and I should be. I am not an Apache. But I don't think that your birth certificate for Geronimo can possibly be right. From what I understand, he was born in the mountains of New Mexico up amongst the pines. Near the upper stretches of the Gila River. There were only Apaches there, and they were Bedonkohe people. So I don't think such a birth certificate can exist. But maybe I am wrong and somehow birth certificates were issued later in life so that Apaches could be written down on the paperwork of the people who ran the reservations. Does anybody know about this? dT Have found 1900 Census from Fort Sill, Prisoners of War, on this page row 11 appears Geronimo, he declares he was born in Mexico and that he doesn't speaks English. on same census, (not the same page) appears Naiche's and Chihuahua's families among others. (I don't have the rights for the document, hope not to be delinquent) View AttachmentI was answering this post in reference to using census |
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