Taza

[naiches2]

Feb 20, 2011 20:04:54 GMT -5 josephine said:

Hello everyone Apacheros!

"SE. - Chief was BET'O (corruption of Victor), or Victor. He was not a real chief but a Mexican captive. Tag band mostly made up of Aravaipa People. They settled on the San Carlos River at the foot of Victor's Bluff. Victor is now dead."

This man is Victor that appears in the famous photo: Victorio/Beitero aka Victor/Bet'ò.

Unfortunately, there are no photos of the grand chief Victorio/Biduye of Mimbres Tchihennè (Chihenne).

Sorry for my bad English

Hellow and welcome Josephine!
I'll agree with your statement. It's verty sad but we don't have Victorio's portrait.

[xframe]

Feb 20, 2011 20:04:54 GMT -5 josephine said:

Hello everyone Apacheros!

"SE. - Chief was BET'O (corruption of Victor), or Victor. He was not a real chief but a Mexican captive. Tag band mostly made up of Aravaipa People. They settled on the San Carlos River at the foot of Victor's Bluff. Victor is now dead."

This man is Victor that appears in the famous photo: Victorio/Beitero aka Victor/Bet'ò.

Unfortunately, there are no photos of the grand chief Victorio/Biduye of Mimbres Tchihennè (Chihenne).

Sorry for my bad English

Is there a source available concerning this information? I mean that this man on the photo is Victor/Beitero? I think I did read that already in another thread, but can't remember regarding a source as well. Very curious to get more information

Cheers

-Frank-

[naiches2]

If you interesting about this photo - look at thread 'Yavapai - The Chameleon People' (Tribes of Other Areas - Southwest) my «Reply #8 on Nov 2, 2009, 3:35pm ».
Here photo is marked Beitero, Mohave-Apache.



About Victor/BET'O - see thread 'Apache Tag Bands of Fort Apache and San Carlos Reservation' (in Western Apache)

[kayitah]

Nice find! Might actually be Bet'o aka Victor. He doesn't have Apache features, so he could very well be of mexican (indian) descent.

Here are two more images of this man. Actually, I have always thought about a Yavapai when looking at him...

[coeurrouge]

you convince me

[josephine]

Hello Apacheros Naiches, Kayitah, Xframe and Coeurrouge.

“San Carlos women (therefore also the Aravaipa) were sometimes takes as wives by the Walkamepa Yavapai.” "James Haley, The Apache".

I think that Victor/Betò aka Victorio/Beitero was probably one of these men Yavapai ( altough Mexican ex prisoner). And it is possible that he was crossbred, “Mestizo o Coyote”, as most Mexicans.

[xframe]

Agree, also quite convinced that the guy on the famous pic is not Victorio, unfortunately!
Special thanx to Naiches2 for the links to the older postings )

[kayitah]

Thanks, Josephine. You're absolutetly right, intermarriage would (in most cases) move the newly-married couple to the group of the girl's family.

[Second]

Hello everyone, I just recvd an ISBN for my book and I have entered the last phase of publishing. My book is titled Second Jumper, searching for his bloodline. Written by Sigfried R. Second-Jumper.
It has taken me 5 yrs to write it. It starts out with the surrendering of the Chiricahuas and their journey to Florida as prisoners of war. While in Florida, my great grandparents were separated from the bulk of the Tribe and shipped to Cuba. An event witnessed by other prisoners, and recorded in their oral history and songs.
Also recorded and photographed by my family are my great grandparent’s arrival in Cuba, their struggles, sacrifices and accomplishments. Some of my great grandparent’s descendents began migrating to Florida, settling on the outskirts of the Florida Everglades. It was there that I discovered a Miccosukee Indian camp tucked deep in the swamps. Little did I know I was meeting the remnants of the only Unconquered Nation, The Florida Seminoles. In time I learned to master the art of breaking in horses, wrestling alligators, followed by 15 yrs of dancing and singing among them. These events were captured and will be shown with never before seen photographs.
Through their encouragement, I along with my family set out on a trip across country, in search of our long lost Apache relatives. A long journey that started in St. Augustine, FL, Oklahoma, Arizona, ended at the Mescalero Apache Reservation in NM. Upon arrival at Mescalero, I was welcomed and accepted by ex-prisoners of war, the Chiricahuas and ultimately my long lost relatives. Unaware of my past tribal history, I was inaugurated into the medicine circle as a singer for the Chiricahua Crown Dancers. It was there, that I have and continue to learn the traditional ways of the Chiricahuas. After many years of loosing members and traditions, we all decided to record and preserve our ways along with our daily activities for future generations. For the first time ever, the reader will enter into the sacred tepee of the Crown dancers and learned what takes place prior to ceremonies. All of it has been done with the consent of all members.
When the Seminoles learned that I was recording these stories, they asked me to include theirs as well. Some of these tales and photographs have been kept by members of both groups for decades as family treasures. I am honored to have been trusted to write them as they were told to me. All stories were reviewed by all participants prior to publishing to assure that they are told as they would want their great grandchildren to hear them.
Unlike many or most books written about these two groups, this one is done from within. As a result, the participants felt comfortable revealing stories long suppress by fear and mistrust. There is only half a page of references and over 300 pages of the real stories of the Tigers of the Human race, the Chiricahua Apaches and the Only Unconquered Nation, the Florida Seminoles.
I have dedicated my book to future Chiricahua and Seminole descendents but it really pertains to all humans as preserving their ancestral ways is just as important.
I will keep you all posted as soon as my book is available.

Sincerely,
Siggy Jumper

[swa562]

[dT]

quick question if you don't mind.
in the Fly photograph above - which person is Nana?

thanks!
dT

[kayitah]

Nov 6, 2013 15:06:52 GMT -5 dT said:

quick question if you don't mind.
in the Fly photograph above - which person is Nana?

thanks!
dT

Nana is to Geronimo's left, sitting between Lt. Maus and Geronimo, wearing a straw hat

[dT]

thank you.
I had to go back on the Web and look at many versions of the CS Fly photograph. Unfortunately, Nana's face is in deep shadow in many of these pictures and it is not easy to see him clearly. I found one version of the photo where I can see his face just a little bit. Things like this make you wish that the photographer had taken more photo's of this group on that famous day. I suppose we are lucky to have the pictures that we have got. But clearly the great historical importance of this moment was only partly understood at the time. Too bad.

Nana is remarkable because of his great endurance even when he was very old, and his very clever knowledge of tactics. His brain and body served him very well even to a great old age. If I recall, he had a problem with one arm or one hand (or maybe a leg). I think it was some kind of accident when he was younger - but he did not let this get him down.

I did find that Nana was more clearly visible in the photo below. I am not sure why he look younger in this picture. The links are very long, but if you click on them they show the picture.



This next picture seems very much like him:


And finally I dont know if this picture is him when he was younger, or people have mixed up the identification. It does not seem like this type of photo should exist for Nana, just based on historical events. So I wonder who this is?



dT

[metek09]

Hi im new here and from canada, I just find this photo, the capture of Geronimo:
you can see in the middle Naiche, and perhaps the first in the left will be Taza?

I try to post th photo but impossible, enyway if there is another subject where to post the photos let me known!

[coeurrouge]

Hi and Welcome et Bonne Année.

I do not see your photo. But you have to know that the first capture of Geronimo (in 1877) was after Taza's death in 1876. So it is impossible that Taza was involved of an american photo as Geronimo's subject.

Sorry it was not "Ben Correct".