Taza

[jeroen]

In many books, even in Edwin sweeney's fine biography of Cochise, this man is often identified as Taza, Cochise's eldest son. But I think these images were taken in 1886 when a Chiricahua delegation led by Loco and Chatto, visited Washington, 10 years after Taza died. (for comparison, see portraits of Chatto and others taken during this occasion). I think this man is actually Noche, who was also present when Geronimo and Naiche discussed their surrender with Crook in March 1886 (see the famouw Camillus Fly photos of these talks)...
Any thoughts out there about this?

[Dietmar]

Jeroen,

ah, this makes sense, the inscription "Notshi" indicates it, too.

I´ll look for the Fly photo for comparison...

[jeroen]

Right, I guess the inscription is also the source for the confusion, Notshi looks a lot like Naiche, however this guy does not look like Naiche, so perhaps someone figured him to be the older brother. And the mistake has persisted ever since...

[Dietmar]

Here is the famous Fly photo, can you spot Noche?:


(SIRIS photo)

[jeroen]

It is the one with the hat and army coat between Maus and Nana... This Apache is sometimes identified as Alchisay, but my guess it is Noche...

[grahamew]

You can see him clearly in the group photo at Mt Vernon in the Geronimo thread. So no photos exist of Taza - as far as we know?

[jeroen]

I guess , haven't found one yet... The Apache delegation to Washington was photographed more than once, but have not identified Taza among them... perhaps these pictures were taken after Taza died.

[jinlian]

Taza was struck with pneumonia on his way to Washington and died on September 26th, a few days after reaching the capital (September 18th) , so it's likely he didn't get a chance to be photographed.

From local newspapers:
The Evening Star, September 18, 1876
Locals
Twenty-one Indians of the Apache tribe are in the city on business
with the Indian office. There are four squaws among the number.
They attract much attention from Centennial pilgrims.

The Evening Star, September 28, 1876
Apaches Going to the Centennial
Indian Agent Clum, of Arizona, has arrived here with a delegation
of twenty-two Apache Indians, which he proposes to take to the
Centennial. Three years ago these Indians, who are a part of
Cochise's band, were exceedingly hostile, but now they are
partially civilized. One of them, Taza, a son of Cochise, died
Tuesday with pneumonia, and was buried yesterday in the
Congressional Cemetery.



Taza's tombstone at the Congressional Cemetery, Washington D.C.

Incidentally, Herman Viola in his Diplomats in Buckskins reports that agent John Clum organized the delegation's trip just to get some more money to organize his own marriage in Ohio. This would explain why the delegation's trip wasn't covered by major newspapers such as the NY Times.

Jeroen, the delegation photographs you're referring to are those with Eskiminzin and Chiquito? Or are there more? Thanks.

[charlie]

I can confirm that the man at the start of this thread is a chiricahua scout named NOCHE or NOTSHI. Unfortunately, don't exsist photo about famous chief TAZA.
And yes, is him the man with the hat and army coat in the Fly's photo.

[inkpaduta1981]

Don't exist photo of chief Victorio, too. The man in that famous photo is Beitero, an Apache-Mojave chief. And in the famous photo of the train, with Geronimo, Naiche and other apache prisoners...the woman identified as Lozen isn't Lozen, but Bi-ya-ne-ta, Perico's wife.

[inkpaduta1981]

Don't exist photo of chief Victorio, too. The man in that famous photo is Beitero, an Apache-Mojave chief. And in the famous photo of the train, with Geronimo, Naiche and other apache prisoners...the woman identified as Lozen isn't Lozen, but Bi-ya-ne-ta, Perico's wife.

[jeroen]

Yes Jinlian, those are the photographs I am referring to, in both the delegation pictures and the individual portraits I did not find Taza. And because he was the most prominent delegation member, he would certainly have been included. So I guess the photographs were taken while Taza was in the hospital or after he had died.
I agree the woman often identified in the famous train photograph as Lozen, is probably not her, but is indeed Bi-ya-ne-ta. Even though general Stanley who made a list of the Apache prisoners, failed to mention her, Lozen almost certainly was among them. The officer identified only a few of the women. And Kanseah, who was certainly present, stated Lozen was with Geronimo and Naiche until the very end.
Here is a photograph of Apaches in Mount Vernon. The woman in the center (left) is said to be Lozen, but of course, nobody knows for certain...



As for the Victorio identification, James Kaywaykla, who as a boy lived with Victorio and his people, confirmed that the picture really shows Victorio to mrs. Eve Ball. He could be mistaken of course, but in many other facts he proved to be quite reliable. Perhaps Victorio's descendants can tell more about it...

[perico]

That man shown in the delegation is indeed Noche for certain.

[perico]

Taza was in a different delegation to D.C. He was in the earlier Delegation, the one before Loco, Chatto, Notalq and those people. He was the only Chiricahua Apache in that Delegation. The rest were Western Apache I believe.

[jeroen]

Yes, that is obvious, Taza was in the delegation coming to Washington in 1876, the Loco, Chatto e.o. delegation visited the capital 10 years later.