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Post by naiches2 on May 7, 2010 15:21:54 GMT -5
Taza was in a different delegation to D.C. He was in the earlier Delegation, the one before Loco, Chatto, Notalq and those people. He was the only Chiricahua Apache in that Delegation. The rest were Western Apache I believe. Sorry, but my information Taza (not to take photographs), he was not the only one Chiricahua Apache in that Delegation. Here photo of Cullah, Chiricahua Apache, 1876  and another shot  No further info about this man. May be Perico have this? |
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Taza
May 9, 2010 18:12:25 GMT -5
Post by perico on May 9, 2010 18:12:25 GMT -5
To the best of my knowledge, Taza was the only Chiricahua in that specific delegation. Unfortunatly because of the misidentification of him (the picture that is Noche) there is a bust sculpture of Noche as his marker where he is laid to rest. Chiricahua Apaches had nothing to do with putting that marker there.
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Taza
May 9, 2010 18:15:56 GMT -5
Post by perico on May 9, 2010 18:15:56 GMT -5
Taza was in a different delegation to D.C. He was in the earlier Delegation, the one before Loco, Chatto, Notalq and those people. He was the only Chiricahua Apache in that Delegation. The rest were Western Apache I believe. Sorry, but my information Taza (not to take photographs), he was not the only one Chiricahua Apache in that Delegation. Here photo of Cullah, Chiricahua Apache, 1876 and another shot No further info about this man. May be Perico have this? No information about this person or if he was even Chircahua. If I find information on him I'll let you know. Naiches2, do you have any high resolution versions of any of these pictures? |
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Taza
May 10, 2010 4:18:21 GMT -5
Post by naiches2 on May 10, 2010 4:18:21 GMT -5
Yes of, course!
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Taza
May 10, 2010 18:59:03 GMT -5
Post by perico on May 10, 2010 18:59:03 GMT -5
Can you email me some images? |
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Taza
May 11, 2010 3:02:09 GMT -5
Post by jeroen on May 11, 2010 3:02:09 GMT -5
There may have been two men called Cullah. General Kautz in one report about the 1876 trip to Washington says "Tahza and Cullah, both Chiricahua..." while Clum in Apache Agent mentions Cullah, while moving Victorio's people and Geronimo's band to San Carlos in 1877. This Cullah is associated with Eskiminzin, suggesting he was an Arivaipa. Maybe it is one and the same man and was he a Chiricahua living with the Eskiminzin's people, or was he an Arivaipa and Kautz simply made a mistake in identifying him as Chiricahua. I always thought Taza was the only Chiricahua in the delegation, the others being Western Apaches and two Yavapai.
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Taza
Dec 7, 2010 16:37:23 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Dec 7, 2010 16:37:23 GMT -5
About Victorio,
I want to reply to Inkpaduta 1981. i think the known photos of Victorio are right.
Why I think that, because ( when I could post them), look the photos of Victorio and Istee,his survivor's son at the same age. Put hair on Istee and you would see Victorio.
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Taza
Dec 8, 2010 12:11:36 GMT -5
Post by jeroen on Dec 8, 2010 12:11:36 GMT -5
You are right coeurrouge, Charles Istee does look a lot like the Victorio portraits... I think the doubts originate with the labeling of the SIRIS copy of the photo (probably done by a Smithsonian employee, for the handwriting is also found on other images in the collection). But I am almost certain that is just a copy of the original which shows more of Victorio (waist length)...
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Taza
Dec 11, 2010 16:18:45 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Dec 11, 2010 16:18:45 GMT -5
Chose promise, chose due... sorry, it's words from France. It means. things promised, things done..  |
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Taza
Dec 11, 2010 16:34:20 GMT -5
Post by naiches2 on Dec 11, 2010 16:34:20 GMT -5
There may have been two men called Cullah. General Kautz in one report about the 1876 trip to Washington says "Tahza and Cullah, both Chiricahua..." while Clum in Apache Agent mentions Cullah, while moving Victorio's people and Geronimo's band to San Carlos in 1877. This Cullah is associated with Eskiminzin, suggesting he was an Arivaipa. Maybe it is one and the same man and was he a Chiricahua living with the Eskiminzin's people, or was he an Arivaipa and Kautz simply made a mistake in identifying him as Chiricahua. I always thought Taza was the only Chiricahua in the delegation, the others being Western Apaches and two Yavapai. This is some kind of mystique, why everyone is saying that Taza was the only Chircahua a delegation to Washington? Himself Mr. Clum said that Taza was with another fellow tribesmen! And the photographs of Cullah taken during this tour is clearly written:"Chiricahua". Look at « Reply #15 on May 7, 2010, 11:21pm » |
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Taza
Dec 13, 2010 6:28:47 GMT -5
Post by jeroen on Dec 13, 2010 6:28:47 GMT -5
I think because a number of sources indicate Taza was the only Chiricahua... Clum also states he was familiar with an Arivaipa named Cullah... perhaps things got mixed up...
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Taza
Jan 24, 2011 5:47:02 GMT -5
Post by perico on Jan 24, 2011 5:47:02 GMT -5
Chose promise, chose due... sorry, it's words from France. It means. things promised, things done.. No. The man on the left is NOT Victorio. It is definatly not him. Even though its published in James Kawayklas book. |
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Taza
Feb 5, 2011 6:18:40 GMT -5
Post by coeurrouge on Feb 5, 2011 6:18:40 GMT -5
On Taza, I am more surprised to think that he was single with no children, for 2 reasons.
first, with the ten years war, the Chokonen band had a lot of widows needing assistance.
Second, at his age 30 yeras old, with a reputation as a great warrior and a leader, grandson of Mangas Coloradas and son of Cochise, others men would be married with children.
for this 2 reasons, I asked myself:
How was possible that Taza stayed single?
I think, he was married, maybe with children (not Niño Cochise).
At his death, his widow married his brother Naiche. Though, second question?
E-Cla-Eh, second wife of Naiche, could be the widow of Taza?
If you had some elements to answer on my way or the opposite way, I thank you on advance.
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Taza
Feb 10, 2011 5:07:04 GMT -5
Post by jeroen on Feb 10, 2011 5:07:04 GMT -5
I once read that there was a widow of Taza (not the Nino Cochise sham) and, given Apache cultural traditions, it may well be that Naiche married her following his brother's death... if so, this could well be E clah eh, for he was already married to Na de yole (Eskinya's daughter) at that time and he would marry Haozinne later on... Good point Coeurrouge!
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Post by josephine on Feb 20, 2011 20:04:54 GMT -5
Hello everyone Apacheros!
"SE. - Chief was BET'O (corruption of Victor), or Victor. He was not a real chief but a Mexican captive. Tag band mostly made up of Aravaipa People. They settled on the San Carlos River at the foot of Victor's Bluff. Victor is now dead."
This man is Victor that appears in the famous photo: Victorio/Beitero aka Victor/Bet'ò.
Unfortunately, there are no photos of the grand chief Victorio/Biduye of Mimbres Tchihennè (Chihenne).
Sorry for my bad English
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