Crazy Horse and relatives

[hreinn]

Relatives of Crazy Horse (Tĥašuŋke Witkó) (b.1840, d.1877) (Crazy Horse 3)
(aka Among The Trees (Čháŋ Óhaŋ), Light Hair (Žiží), Jiji (Žiží), Curly Hair (Pĥehíŋ Yuĥáĥa), His Horse Stands in Sight (Tĥašuŋke Tĥaŋíŋyaŋ))

This post is divided into 3 parts.
Part I = A list of those persons who I think nobody doubts to be relatives of Crazy Horse.
Part II = A discussion about those who are accepted and those who are not accapted by the Clown family as relatives of Crazy Horse
Part III = Final remarks.


Part I

Generation 1
Crazy Horse and his sisters and brothers [1]:
Crazy Horse (b.1840, d.1877)
(Young) Little Hawk (aka High Horse, His Horse Stands In Sight) (b.1850, d.1870)
Shell Blanket (b.1849, d.1874)
Sacred Girl (b.1850, d.1850)
Combing (b.1851, d.1932)
Bear Pipe (b.1856, d.1892)
Peter Wolf (b.1864, d.1918)
Iron Cedar (aka Julia Clown) (b.1865, d.1936)
Comes Home Last (b.1866, d.1871)
2 twin sisters who died soon after their birth in the year 1850

Generation 2
Father = Worm (b.1810, d.1900) (Crazy Horse 2) [1]
Mother = Rattling Blanket Woman (b.1814, d.1845) [1]

Generation 3
Maternal Grandfather (father of Rattling Blanket Woman) = Black Buffalo (or Black Bull) (b.1760, d.1816) [1, 2]
Maternal Grandmother (mother of Rattling Blanket Woman) = White Cow Woman (aka Iron Cane) [1, 2]

Paternal Grandfather (father of Worm) = Walks With Sacred Buffalo (aka Makes The Song) (b.1760-1780, d. 1830-1835) (Crazy Horse 1) [1]
Paternal Grandmother (mother of Worm) = X1 (b.1797 ?)

Generation 4
Maternal Great-Grandfather (father of White Cow Woman) = Body Parts [2]
Maternal Great-Grandmother (mother of White Cow Woman) = Looking Walker Woman [2]
Maternal Great-Grandfather (father of Black Buffalo) = X2
Maternal Great-Grandmother (mother of Black Buffalo) = X3

Paternal Great-Grandfather (father of Makes The Song) = Black Elk 1 (b.1720-1750, d.?) [3]
Paternal Great-Grandmother (mother of Makes The Songs) = Red Eagle Woman [3]
Paternal Great-Grandfather (father of X1) = X4
Paternal Great-Grandmother (mother of X1) = X5

Generation 5
Maternal Great-Great-Grandfather (father of Body Parts) = Standing Buffalo 1 (b.1730-1750, d.?) [2]



Part II

During the time interval 1877-1944 several interviews were taken with Lakota people who were contempories of Crazy Horse where they spoke of Crazy Horse and his relatives.
Based on these Lakota interviews + several letters by Lakota people + Lakota's wintercounts, 2 non-Lakota persons have extracted a noteworthy overviews of Crazy Horse's relatives as best as they could from the available material to them at each given time.
First, Richard G. Hardorff in 1985 in his book "The Oglala Lakota Crazy Horse" [4]
Then, Kingsley M. Bray in 2006 in his book "Crazy Horse: A Lakota Life" [5]

Recently modern Lakotas have published their families stories.
First the Crazy Horse's relatives. The Clown family published their material during the time interval 2006-2010 on a set of 4 DVDs made by Reel Contact with the title "The Authorized Biography of Crazy Horse and His Family" (www.reelcontact.com) [1]. Those who speak on behalf of the Clown Family on these DVDs are in an alphabetical order Don Red Thunder, Doug War Eagle and Floyd Clown.
Also the Smoke's relatives. In 2009 - 2011, Wendyll Smoke wrote about his family in the thread Chief Smoke and his family on this website [2].

In view of the latest information it is appropriated once more to try to gather all the information in one place.
Below is an overview of the relatives of Crazy Horse based on all these 4 sources mentioned above [1, 2, 4, 5].

This matter has also been discussed earlier on the threads News on Crazy Horse Trial and Spotted Tail [6] and Crazy Horse Genealogy on lbha.proboards.com [7].

Of course what the Clown family has to say has a HEAVY weight.
Some people have had some doubts about some parts of what the Clown family says [6, 7].
I trust that everything is right what the Clown family says about their Miniconju relatives. Not that the Clown family needs mine or anyone else approval.

But what I find strange is what the Clown family does not mention on their DVDs and also their emphasize that Crazy Horse was Miniconju Lakota but not Oglala Lakota [1, 8].

There are 3 persons who have been considered relatives of Crazy Horse, who the Clown Family excludes on their DVDs and many related persons are not mentioned as relatives.
The name of the excluded persons are included in the text below and their names are written in red. Along with some discussion about why these persons could be considered relatives of Crazy Horse.

Despite the DVDs from the Clown family, it is difficult to neglect the words of contemporary Lakota people when they spoke about Crazy Horse relatives. Although far from beyond critical evaluation. Because unfortunatelly you can point to at least one error (compared to what others say) in the testimony of almost all these contemporaries. Therefore the question arises if you notice one error, are there more errors ? Is everything what they said just a rubbish ? But as happens to be the rule of life, things are neither black or white.

It is also difficult to neglect the Lakota wintercounts and what they tell us about possible relatives of Crazy Horse and his family.

I share the oppinion which Ladonna expressed when she said "after doing all the familky histories of my tribe, one family does not have all the information. We need to take small step in recording histories from all points of view. Oral, written with in the tribe and different tribes to get the full story" [9].

I am just trying to consider all available information. I don't favour anyone. In my mind this is not a question of "this against that" or "us vs. them" etc.. I think I can say that everyone non-Lakota person who discuss this topic does it in good faith, honesty and respect. People are just expressing their thoughts as thoughtful human beings. It is not ment to insult anyone or try to override anyone.


Parents

Worm (b.1810, d.1900) [1] and Rattling Blanket Woman (b.1814, d.1845) [1, 10] had together 2 children (1 girl + 1 boy) [11].
1. Looks At Her (b.1838, d.?)
2. Crazy Horse (Tĥašuŋke Witkó) (aka Among The Trees (Čháŋ Óhaŋ), Light Hair (Žiží), Jiji (Žiží), Curly (Pĥehíŋ Yuĥáĥa), His Horse Stands in Sight (Tĥašuŋke Tĥaŋíŋyaŋ) (b.1840, d.1877)

The Clown family does not approve Looks At Her as a relative [1].
The Clown family states that Crazy Horse was the only child of Worm and Rattling Blanket Woman [1].

But at least 2 and perhaps 3 Lakotas contemporaries to Crazy Horse said that Crazy Horse had a sister:

1. Oglala Lakota named Little Killer said in 1930 in an interview with Eleanor Hinman that Club Man had married Crazy Horse's older sister [11]. Little Killer was a younger brother of Club Man and would therefore have been a brother-in-law of Crazy Horse's sister [12].

2. Oglala Lakota named Mrs. Eagle Horse said in an interview with Walter Camp that her mother was Crazy Horse's sister [10]. As pointed out by Ephriam Dickson, Mrs. Eagle Horse may have been one of Club Man’s two daughters or possibly even the wife of Club Man’s son [12]. Hardorff points out that Eagle Horse was a Brulé Lakota who Mrs. Eagle Horse married and they resided on Lower Brulé Agency on the Missouri River [13].
The words of Mrs. Eagle Horse have some weight because she was able to give the name of her grandmother Rattling Blanket Woman. That is something which could not be taken for granted at that time.
Because as Kingsley Bray pointed out, it is interesting to note that the name of Crazy Horse's mother Rattling Blanket Woman was not known by many for a long time [14].
Even contemporaries of Crazy Horse and persons close to Crazy Horse, for example Horn Chips (Crazy Horse's hunka) and He Dog, didn't know her name when asked (both were Oglala Lakota).
Though many knew she was a Miniconju Lakota.
But Mrs. Eagle Horse said in the Camp's interview that her grandmother's (and therefore Crazy Horse's mother) name was Rattling Blanket Woman.
That Mrs. Eagle Horse knew the name, gives her words a weight.

3. Oglala Lakota named He Dog (b.1838-1840, d.1936) perhaps indirectly mentioned Crazy Horse's sister in an interview in 1930 [15]. He Dog said that Worm had three children, with Crazy Horse as the middle child. These words of He Dog could mean = Looks At Her the oldest, Crazy Horse in the middle and Young Little Hawk the youngest. In 1930 these 3 children were the only children of Worm who were known to the general white public. The others were not mentioned out of protection. Untill Julia Clown was known because of an interview with William J. Bordeaux for his book Custer's Conqueror which was published in 1952.
Doug War Eagle's comment on He Dog's statement was repeated after him as: "He Dog was talking about the children that survived Waglula. But for some reason it was interpreted as just three children. As far as the Crazy Horse middle child statement Doug believes He Dog was confused after all he was quite old...or it could have been misinterpreted. Doug said He Dog was one of the people that protected Waglula up until Waglula's death" [7].
The Clown family says that Worm died in the year 1900 [1]. That means only Combing and Iron Cedar (aka Julia Clown) survived their father of the children who Worm had with the 3 daughters of Corn and Iron Between Eyes [1].

Neither Little Killer, Mrs. Eagle Horse nor He Dog gives the name of this sister of Crazy Horse [10, 11, 15].
Hardorff mention this sister of Crazy Horse but does not know her name [4].
Bray mention this sister and gives the name Looks At Her but doesn't give a reference to where he got her name [5].

Looks At Her married to Club Man (aka Club War, Has a War Club, Keep the War Club, Owns the War Club) (b.1830-1840, d.1880-1885) and together they had 8 children [11].
Little Killer (brother of Club Man) said in an interview in 1930 that by the year 1901 Looks At Her and all her children were dead [11].
That would exclude Crazy Horse sister as being a mother to Mrs. Eagle Horse.
But Little Killer statement could have been said for the protection of the family. Just as Worm did to protect his family as explained by the Clown family on their DVDs [1].
The relatives of Crazy Horse tried to hide for the white people who were in the family [1].

Club Man surrendered with Crazy Horse in May 1877 and is listened in the Crazy Horse Surrender Ledger as War Club along with Owns Arrow as "Heads of Households" in 1 lodge which consisted of 2 adult males (War Club and Owns Arrow) + 2 adult females + 2 male children + 3 female children in total 9 peoples [16]. Presumably one of the adult females was Looks At Her = Crazy Horse's older sister.
Club Man and his family fled to Canada in the winter of 1877-78 where they joined Sitting Bull and other Lakotas [12].
Club Man came back to USA from Canada in 1881 [12]. Club Man is recorded in the Sitting Bull Surrender Census with his wife (her name is given as Mni okin ci which means water something because Mni means water) with 3 children. That is a son named Eagle Horse and two daughters named Recognizing Horse and Wounded Twice. Little Killer (brother of Club Man) is listed as the next family in the census [12]. Hardorff says that Eagle Horse was a Brulé Lakota who the daughter of Looks At Her and Club Man married [13], not son as Ephriam Dickson says [12]. But as usual, a son can have 2 meanings in Lakota terms (son and son-in-law).
As Ephriam Dickson points out [12]: Club Man’s wife (Looks At Her) disappears by the time of the 1890 Pine Ridge Agency census and one daughter (Shot Twice) is listed with the family of Lone Eagle. The family of Eagle Horse is shown as part of Little Hawk’s group in an undated record.

As can be seen above, it is not a wašíču (wasichu) invention that Looks At Her was a sister of Crazy Horse.

Crazy Horse married to Black Shawl (b.1843, d.1927) and together they had 1 girl = (Young) They Are Afraid Of Her (b.1871, d.1873) [1, 5]
Black Shawl was a daughter of Red Feather and Red Elk Woman. Red Elk Woman was 1 of 2 daughters of Old Spotted Tail (Spotted Tail 1) who adopted Spotted Tail (Spotted Tail 2) [6].

A rumour has it that Crazy Horse and Black Buffalo Woman had a brown haired girl (Crazy Horse also had a brown hair, not black hair) as a result of a short lived love affair in 1870. This girl was the third child of Black Buffalo Woman and born in 1871 [5].

Worm also married to 3 daughters of Corn (b.1798, d.1884) and Iron Between Eyes (b.?, d. 1844), that is the 3 sisters Iron Between Horns (b.1824, d.1884), Kills Enemy (b.1826, d.1877) and Red Leggins (b.1829, d.1905) [1, 7].
Worm and Iron Between Horns had 1 son named (Young) Little Hawk (aka High Horse, His Horse Stands In Sight) (b.1850, d.1870) [1].
Worm and Kills Enemy had 2 twin daughters who died soon after their birth in the year 1850 [1].
Worm and Red Leggins had 7 children (3 girls and 4 boys) [1].
1. Shell Blanket (b.1849, d.1874) (girl)
2. Sacred Girl (b.1850, d.1850) (girl)
3. Combing (b.1851, d.1932) (boy)
4. Bear Pipie (b.1856, d.1892) (boy)
5. Peter Wolf (b.1864, d.1918) (boy)
6. Iron Cedar (aka Julia Clown) (b.1865, d.1936) (girl)
7. Comes Last (b.1866, d.1871) (boy)

All these children of Worm with Crazy Horse's stepmothers were Crazy Horses sisters and brothers in Lakota terms and half-sisters and half-brothers in non-Lakota terms.
It is the relatives of Julia Clown who are telling their stories on the DVDs [1]. It is a great breakthrough that a modern Native American people are telling their stories on DVD. The DVDs from the Clown family are highly recommended.
Iron Cedar (aka Julia Clown) married to Amos Clown and together they had 9 children. Julia and Amos took care of Old They Are Afraid Of Her in her old age untill she died in 1889 [1]. It is the great-grandsons of Julia and Amos Clown who speak on the DVDs on behalf of the Clown family.


Paternal Grandparents

Makes The Song (aka Walks With Sacred Buffalo) (b.1760-1780, d. 1830-1835) [1, 17] and a woman with an unknown name (b.1797 ?) had together 3 children (2 boys + 1 girl) [4]
1. Worm (aka Crazy Horse, Waglula, Kills At Night, Breast, Woman Breasts) (b.1810, d.1900) (Crazy Horse 2)
2. Male Crow (aka He Crow, Crow Male, Male Raven) (b.1813, d.1844)
3. Big Woman (aka Rattle Stone Woman, Tunkanawin, Mrs. One Horse) (b.1815, d.?)

The Clown family does not approve Male Crow (He Crow) nor Big Woman (aka Rattle Stone Woman) as relatives [1].
The Clown family states that Worm was the "only son" of Walks With Sacred Buffalo and a woman with an unknown name [1].
The Clown family says that the mother of Worm (aka Waglula) "died after having Waglula" between the years 1810-1815.

Worm married to Rattling Blanket Woman (see above under Parents).
Worm also married to the 3 sisters Iron Between Horns, Kills Enemy and Red Leggins (see above under Parents).

Male Crow is mentioned in 5 Lakota Winter Counts:
1. In the Lakota Winter Count of Short Man (aka Short Bull 2) for the winter 1838-1839. The name for that winter is = He Crow brought home many spotted horses [18].
2. In the Lakota Winter Count of Short Man (aka Short Bull 2) for the winter 1843-1844. The name for that winter is = He Crow killed [18].
3. In the Oglala Lakota Winter Count of No Ears for the winter 1844-1845. The name for that winter is = He Crow killed [19].
4. In the Oglala Lakota Winter Count of American Horse for the winter 1844-1845. The name for that winter is = Male Crow, an Oglala, was killed by the Shoshoni [19].
5. In the Oglala Lakota Winter Count of a keeper with an unknown name but related the history to the mixed-blood (Lakota mother + white father) Whiteman Stands In Sight (aka John Colhoff) for the winter 1844-1845. The name for that winter is = Crow Male arrive, they killed him [20].

Crazy Horse (aka Worm) is mentioned in 2 Lakota Winter Counts:
6. In the Oglala Lakota Winter Count of Cloud Shield for the winter 1844-1845. The name for that winter is = Crazy Horse said his prayers and goes on the warpath. [19]
7. In the Oglala Lakota Winter Count of Cloud Shield for the winter 1852-1853. The name of that winter is = A white man made medicine over the skull of Crazy Horse's brother. [19]

The death of He Crow is mentioned in still another contemporary Lakota source:
8. The Oglala Lakota named Black Elk 4 (b.1863, d.1950) repeated an eyewitness account by Bad Boy of how He Crow was killed in a fight with the Shoshoni along the Rocky Mountains [21].
Black Elk 4 says there were 6 brothers in the war party, one of them was He Crow. Black Elk 4 doesn't give the names of the other 5 brothers. 5 of these 6 brothers died and only 1 survived because he was careful.
Black Elk 4 was a close relative of Crazy Horse through Makes The Song (see discussion below under Paternal Great-Grandparents).

None of these 8 contemporary Lakota sources directly say that Male Crow (aka He Crow) and Crazy Horse (aka Worm) were brothers.
But both Hardorff [4] and Bray [5] convincingly interpret these sources to indicate that Male Crow and Crazy Horse were brothers.
Hardorff's and Bray's interpretions are supported by a statement in a letter from 1934 from an Oglala Lakota woman Mrs. Victoria Conroy (b.1866). She said Crazy Horse had a younger brother who was killed in a battle with many others (see below some errors in the letter) [4].
The Oglala Lakota Cloud Shield says "Crazy Horse's brother" when he gives the winter 1852-1853 a name (see above). If it is not Male Crow, then who ? You can not ignore this. This is what Cloud Shield considered the most important event of that year. He specifically says brother.

Based on the above, it is likely that Male Crow and Crazy Horse were brothers.
It is though possible that He Crow and Big Woman had the same father as Worm but another mother. Since the Clown family says that Worm's mother died after having Worm [1].
But that is opposite to what is written in the letter from 1934 from Victoria Conroy. There it is specifiacally written that Worm and Big Woman had the same mother and father [4].

Male Crow was married to a woman with an unknown name, who was a sister of Last Dog [21]. It is not known weather they had any children.


The only Lakota source about Big Woman as a sister of Worm is in a letter which her grand-daughter Victoria Conroy (b.1866) dictated to Mrs. J.F. Waggoner in 1934 [4].
In the letter it is written:
1. "My grandmother and Old man Crazy Horse whose common name was Waglula, were sister and brother. They had the same mother and father."
2. "There were three in the family, two boys and one girl."
3. "One of the boys were killed, only one boy lived which was Crazy Horse."
4. Crazy Horse (aka Worm) had a younger brother, who was killed in battle with many others.
5. "Crazy Horses wife thought a good deal of her young brother in-law (sic.) in her grief she took a rope and herself to a tree." This was the first mention in the literature about the suicide of Crazy Horse's mother, which has been confirmed by the Clown family. It also tells indirectly when that happened, which has also been confirmed by the Clown family.

2, 3 and 4 fits to the Lakota Winter Counts as discussed above.

But unfortunatelly there are some obvious errors in the letter:
1. "Waglula took 2 wives, they were childless, neither wife ever had any children." The Clown family is a living proof that this is wrong ! Although it is true that Waglula married first to the 2 oldest sisters and the children he had with them all died. Waglula married the third and the youngest sister later.
2. In the letter is a paradox = "Waglula has no sister" vs. "my grandmother and Old man Crazy Horse whose common name was Waglula were sister and brother". That is no sister vs. sister.
3. "Crazy Horse married Red Feathers sister, they never had any children". This is wrong, since they had 1 child. Although the child died before getting 3 years old.
4. Twice in the letter is written Crazy Horse Jr. when obviously it is Worm in question. Once in the letter is written Crazy Horse Sr. when it is obviously Young Crazy Horse in question ("the son of Waglula or Crazy Horse Sr. famous in battle, who died at Fort Robinson").
At least part of the explanation for these errors are that the letter is not written by Victoria Conroy. It is known that the letter was dictated by Victoria Conroy to Mrs. J.F. Waggoner. I would say it is obvious that it is not dictated word by word. Instead written down by Mrs. Waggoner after discussion with Victoria Conroy. The best "proof" of that is the obvious error of exchanging of Jr. and Sr. Crazy Horse as described above.
Since these errors, is everything wrong or only these above mentioned errors and other things are correct ? There are many things in the letter which are confirmed by other sources, including confirmations from the Clown family. So obviously not everything is wrong in the letter. So you can not totally dismiss this letter.

It is interesting to note that according to Victoria Conroy' letter, the existance of the Clown family is excluded. Since Conroy says that Worm did not had any children with his 2 new wives.
The Clown family also exclude the existance of Victoria Conroy. Since the Clown family says that the only child was Worm and therefore Big Woman's existance and her grand-daughter Victoria Conroy is excluded.
They are not discussing weather they are related or not. They exclude each other existance !

Weather or not related to Crazy Horse, Big Woman married One Horse (aka Human Finger) and together they had 2 daughters [4].
These 2 sisters married to Standing Bear and together they had 5 children, among them was Victoria Conroy and Henry Standing Bear [4].
Victoria Conroy would therefore be a grand-daughter of Big Woman and would therefore be an aunt to Crazy Horse.
Henry Standing Bear suggested to the sculptor Korczack Ziolkowski to carve the huge monument of Crazy Horse in the Black Hills which was started in 1947 and is still in process [13].
Standing Bear also married to Pretty Face and together they had a son named Luther Standing Bear. The author of the books My People The Sioux, My Indian Boyhood and Land of The Spotted Eagle. These books were among the first books about the Native Americans, written by a Native American.


Maternal Grandparents

Black Buffalo (or Black Bull) (Miniconju Lakota) (b.1760, d.1816) and White Cow Woman (aka Iron Cane) (Hunkpatila (Oglala) Lakota) had together 5 children (2 boys and 3 girls) [1, 2].
1. One Horn (b.1794, d.1834)
2. Lone Horn (aka Black Buffalo 2) (b.1804, d.1875)
3. Good Looking Woman (b.1810)
4. Rattling Blanket Woman (b.1814, d.1845)
5. Looks At It = (aka They Are Afraid Of Her (b.1815, d.1889)

One Horn married to a woman with an unknown name and together they had 2 sons [1]. One of them was Spotted Elk (aka Big Foot) (b.1826, d.1890 in the Wounded Knee Massacre) [1].

Lone Horn married to 3 daughters of Red Leaf, that is Stands On Ground, Wind and Stiff Leg [1]. Lone Horn and Stands On Ground had together 4 children (1 girl + 3 boys). The girl's name was Ida Crow (aka Two White Cows) and the boys' names were Touch The Cloud (b.1839, d.1905), Standing Elk (aka Matthew) and Frog (aka Roaming Nose). Lone Horn and Wind had together 1 child named Four Horses. Lone Horn and Stiff Leg had together 2 children, Her Iron Cane and Plenty Clothes.

Good Looking Woman was married to a man with an unknown name. They were not able to have a child together and they divorced. Good Looking Woman helped in raising up Crazy Horse after the suicide of his mother and her sister.

Rattling Blanket Woman was married to Worm (see above under Parents)

Looks At It (aka They Are Afraid Of Her) was married to Stands Up For Him and together they had 1 boy, who died young. They divorced. They Are Afraid Of Her helped in raising up Crazy Horse after the suicide of his mother and her sister.

Crazy Horse`s maternal grandfather Black Buffalo (or Black Bull) (b.1760, d. 1816) also married to Good Voice Woman and together they had 1 son High Back Bone (aka Hump) (b.1811, d.1870) [1].
High Back Bone married to 4 Cheyenne sisters. High Back Bone had at least 4 children, that is Little Crow, Hump 2, High Back Bone and Two Cows.
One can not help noticing that High Back Bone was at the age of 59 when he died in a battle with Crazy Horse in 1870. Which is a rather high age for a warrior in any culture in any era.


Maternal Great-Grandparents

Parents of White Cow Woman:
Body Parts (Blackfeet Lakota) and Looking Walker Woman (Hunkpatila (Oglala) Lakota) married and had together 3 children (1 boy and 2 girls) [2].
1. Smoke (b.1774, d.1864)
2. White Cow Woman (aka Iron Cane)
3. Walks As She Thinks

The Clown family does not mention 4 out of 5 in the above family as a relatives. That is the parents Body Parts and Looking Walker Woman and 2 of their children; Smoke and Walks As She Thinks. Though they mention White Cow Woman (aka Iron Cane) as a relative (see under Maternal Grandparents above) [1].

Smoke married to 5 women and had with them 8 children and adopted 2 more children [2, 23].
Smoke and Looking Cloud Woman (Miniconju Lakota) had together 1 daughter = Ulala (aka Owns Spotted Horse Woman). Ulala married Old Bull Bear (Bull Bear 1) (b.?, d.1841) and was his youngest wife.
Smoke and Comes Out Slow Woman (Oglala Lakota) had together at least 1 son = Solomon (Smoke 2) (b.1835, d.1895).
Smoke and Burnt Her Woman (Brulé Lakota) had together at least 2 sons. The twins Big Mouth (b.1821-1822, d.1869) and Blue Horse (b.1821-1822, d.1909).
Smoke and Brown Eyes Woman (Hunkpapa Lakota) had together unknown number of children.
Smoke and Yellow Haired Woman (Southern Cheyenne) had together 2 boys = American Horse 1 and Woman Dress (b.1846, d.1920).
The children of Smoke were: Ulala (aka Owns Spotted Horse Woman), Man Afraid of His Horse (b.1802, d.1887), Big Mouth (b.1821-1822, d.1869), Blue Horse (b.1821-1822, d.1909), Solomon (Smoke 2) (b.1835, d.1895), Woman Dress (b.1846, d.1920), American Horse I and No Neck.
The adopted children of Smoke were: Red Cloud (b.1821-1822, d.1909) and Bull Bear 3.
Wendell Smoke who has been writing on these proboards about the Smoke family is a grand-grand-grandson of Solomon (Smoke 2) [2].

White Cow Woman (aka Iron Cane) married to Black Buffalo (see under Maternal Grandparents above)

Walks As She Thinks married to Old Red Cloud (aka Lone Man) and together they had at least 1 son named Red Cloud who was adopted by Smoke after Red Cloud's parents died from sickness [2].


Parents of Black Buffalo:
Their names are unknown.


Paternal Great-Grandparents

Parents of Makes The Song:
Black Elk (aka Black Elk 1) [3, 21] (b.1720-1750) married to Red Eagle Woman [3] and together they had at least 5 sons [3, 21].
1. Black Elk (aka Black Elk 2)
2. Makes the Song (aka Walks With Sacred Buffalo) (b.1760-1780)
The names of the other 3 are unknown.

Black Elk 2 was married to a woman with an unknown name and together they had at least 1 son named Black Elk (aka Black Elk 3) [3].
Black Elk 3 was married to White Cow Sees and together they had at least 1 son named Nicholas Black Elk (aka Black Elk 4) (b.1863, d.1950) [3].
The teachings of Nicholas Black Elk 4 are the basis of several books; Black Elk Speaks, The Sixth Grandfather and The Sacred Pipe.

The Clown family does not mention any of the Black Elks as a relative [1]. Even though Black Elk 1 is in a direct lineage according to Nicholas Black Elk 4 and that information was first published in a book many decades ago (originally in 1932) [3].

It is interesting to note that the Clown family never uses the name Makes The Song for Crazy Horse's paternal grandfather [1].
Instead, the Clown family uses the name Walks With Sacred Buffalo [1].
The Oglala Lakota Horn Chips uses the name Makes The Song [17]


The names of the other Great-Grandparents are unknown.


Maternal Great-Great-Grandparents

Standing Buffalo 1 (b.1730-1750) married to a woman with an unknown name and together they had at least 1 son, that is Body Parts. [2]

The Clown family does not mention Standing Buffalo as a relative [1] even though he is in a direct lineage of Crazy Horse according to information from Wendell Smoke [2].



Part III

It was good that the Clown family spoke about Crazy Horse's mother and stepmothers people in detail, because that was missing.
But their discussion about the Crazy Horse's family tree is one sided.

The relatives who the Clown family talks about on their DVDs have one thing in common; they were all Miniconju Lakota (or with strong Miniconju Lakota roots).
The relatives who the Clown family does not talk about on their DVDs have one thing in common; they were all Oglala Lakota (or with strong Oglala Lakota roots).

The Oglala people who the Clown family does not mention are:
A. Those who the Clown family totally exclude when they define their family tree:
1. Looks At It
2. Male Crow
3. Big Woman

B. Those who the Clown family does not mention:
4. Black Elk 1
5. Black Elk 2
6. The parents of White Cow Woman (Body Parts and Looking Walker Woman)
7. The siblings of White Cow Woman (Smoke and Walks As She Thinks) and all their children. Most of them were very famous and important in the Lakota history, for example Red Cloud and Man Afraid Of His Horse.

Most of these people are in Crazy Horse's direct lineage.

This is in accord to the emphasize of the Clown family that Crazy Horse was a Miniconju Lakota but not an Oglala Lakota.
Which goes as far as to label/identify Crazy Horse as a Miniconju Lakota on the Little Big Horn National Monument [6].

There is an ongoing case about who are Crazy Horse relatives and the end seems to be far away.
From what can be interpreted from the thread about The Crazy Horse Malt Liquor case in the thread "News on Crazy Horse Trial and Spotted Tail" [6], it seems to rest on some old papers from the U.S. Army or U.S. Government (that is Probates, Census, Allotments, Rations or whatever the names of all these papers are).
Understandably, the families uses of course whatever materials they have to try to win the case.
But where else than in an U.S. Court would old papers from U.S. Army or U.S. Government be considered as valid evidence ?
Papers who have been shown to be easily distorted.
For example:
1. As the Clown family has explained on their DVDs, Waglula was able to get rations at different places under different names for years.
2. Ridiculous names of many people on the U.S. Army Surrender Census of Crazy Horse, for example the names Shits On His Hand, Pisses In The Horn and Soft Prick [22].
That some family is not able to bring up some "convincing" old U.S. Army/U.S. Governmental papers to support their case, does not proof or disproof anything.

It seems that the most definite way to solve this case has not been taken.
That is a DNA analysis of all relevant people.
A DNA analysis would be more definite, universally accepted, taken less time and most likely cost less than laywers for a long period.
If DNA analysis would have been taken in the start then this case would be a history by now, without any appeals and without different oppinions of the result.

Scientific results rather than an old paperwork, is the ultimate way to proof who is Crazy Horse's relative.


Hreinn



References:
1. DVD disc: The Authorized Biography of Crazy Horse and His Family, Part One - Creation, Spirituality and The Family Tree, made by Reel Contact in association with Tashunke Witko Tiospaye (2006)
2. amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=239
3. John G. Neihardt "Black Elk Speaks" page 6 (1972)
4. Richard G. Hardorff "The Oglala Lakota Crazy Horse" (1985)
5. Kingsley M. Bray "Crazy Horse: A Lakota Life" (2006)
6. amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=teton&action=display&thread=118
7. lbha.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Indians&action=print&thread=1445
8. DVD disc: "Journey of the Heart", made by Reel Contact in association with Tashunke Witko Tiospaye (2004)
9. lbha.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Indians&action=print&thread=1445
10. Interview with Mrs. Eagle Horse, June 1918, Camp Manuscripts (Camp Papers), Box 4, Folder 8 (transcript p. 271), University of Indiana Library.
11. Interview with Little Killer in 1930, Oglala Sources on the Life of Crazy Horse: Interviews given to Eleanor H. Hinman, in R.E. Paul "The Nebraska Indian Wars Reader 1865-1877" pages 210-211 (1998)
12. Ephriam Dickson's biography of Club Man at www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/ClubMan.htm
13. Richard G. Hardorff "The Death of Crazy Horse" (2001)
14. Kingsley M. Bray at www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/CrazyHorse-Part1.htm
15. Interview with He Dog in 1930
16. www.astonisher.com/archives/museum/crazy_horse_surrender.html#ledger
17. Voices of the American West, Volume 1 - The Indian Interviews of Eli S. Ricker, 1903-1919 (2005).
18. Raymond J. DeMallie - J.R. Walker "Lakota Society" pages 139-140 (1992)
19. Smithsonian Institute online description of Lakota Winter Counts at wintercounts.si.edu/index.html
20. William K. Powers "A Winter Count of the Oglala", published by the Lakota Collectibles in an unknown publishing year (sold by Lakota Books)
21. Raymond J. DeMallie "The Sixth Grandfather - Black Elk's Teachings Given to John G. Neihardt" pages 350-352 (1985)
22. www.astonisher.com/archives/museum/crazy_horse_surrender.html#ledger
23. amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=239&page=6

[gregor]

Well done hreinn!
As mentioned before, we will have to debate the issue for a long time. I myself consider a multi-dimensional approach in such matters very use- and helpful. We can’t exclude any reasonably source if we want to have a reliable result. Neither written documents of the dominant culture, nor family or oral traditions of the Lakota. We have to be careful not only about old paperwork, but also about alleged oral traditions. I myself have already experienced cases where the “oral tradition” originated from books and/or documents of the 19th century. The discussion is open now. Again, thank you for the compilation, Gregor.

[ephriam]

Hreinn:

In your first part, you listed individuals who "nobody doubts to be relatives of Crazy Horse." Actually, that is not true. Many of the names you listed here are part of the current debate.

The esteemed Oglala He Dog stated in 1931 that Crazy Horse was one of three children. "The oldest was a sister, the next was Crazy Horse, and the third was a brother." This is the family for which I think there is no debate.

The Clown family descendants claim that Crazy Horse's father had a second family, from which their lineage is descended. This includes names like Combing, Bear Pipe, Peter Wolf, Iron Cedar, etc. listed on your first list. This oral history tradition is not supported by Oglala oral history traditions. This is where the debate is centered.

ephriam

[hreinn]

Gregor: Viele danke !

Good point you made Gregor;

Nov 12, 2010 7:24:16 GMT -5 gregor said:

We have to be careful not only about old paperwork, but also about alleged oral traditions. I myself have already experienced cases where the “oral tradition” originated from books and/or documents of the 19th century.

A related example is the incorrect use of the term Nakota as explained in a thorough and extended Introduction chapter of the highly recommended "New Lakota Dictionary" by Ullrich (2008), as quoted;

"This error probably began with the mid-nineteenth century missionaries among the Santees who over-applied a rule of phonetic distribution. Because the Yankton-Yanktonai dialect uses the suffix -na where Santee uses -da and Lakota -la, the missionoaries thought that the l-d-n distribution applied to all word positions. Thus they assumed that the Yankton-Yanktonai people called themselves Nakota instead of Dakota. Unfortunatelly, the inaccurate assumption of a Lakota-Dakota-Nakota division has been perpetuated in almost every publication since then. Under the influence of the literature, even some Lakota and Dakota people have accepted this division system. However, fluent Yankton and Yanktonai speakers have indicated repeatedly during work on the Dictionary that they refer to themselves as Dakota."

In the old days people refered themselves as Lakĥóta-Dakĥóta-Dakhóta (a little bit different pronounciation of the Dakota word between the Western (Yankton-Yanktonai) and Eastern Dakotas (Santee-Sisseton).

Therefore instead of writing Lakota-Nakota-Dakota it should be Lakota - Western Dakota (W-Dakota) - Eastern Dakota (E-Dakota).

In the same Introduction chapter in the dictionary is written: "The name Nakoda is actually used as a term of self-designation by the Assiniboine and Stoney tribes, who have not been associated with the Lakota and Dakota people politically or culturally for at least four hundred years."

Hreinn

[hreinn]

Ephriam: ... and I thought I was careful in my statement !

Do modern Oglala Lakotas totally deny the existance of Worm's second family ?
Do modern Oglala Lakotas totally deny the existance of blood relation between Worm and the Clown family ?

I understood the situation as both families existed.
Even though the Clown family acknowledge only part of the first family.
But it seems to me that you can not deny the connection between the Clown family and Worm.
It is difficult to imagine that the Clown family is making this all up.

Is that a misunderstanding on my behalf that according to Oglala Lakota oral history, Worm had his second son (Young Little Hawk) with a second wife ? And that is where the Clown family comes into the puzzle. Even though her name were not identified according to Oglala Lakota oral history. Is that lack of identification/not mentioned perhaps the origin of the struggle; Oglala vs. Miniconju (Oglála vs. Mnikĥówožu) ?

Hreinn

[nicolas (carlo)]

Thank you for posting, Hreinn, this will be a very interesting thread...

On Little Hawk: I have always wondered about him and his connection to Crazy Horse. As far as I am able to determine from the various sources, there seems to be confusion between two (or three) persons by the same name, all with possible ties to Crazy Horse.

First, there is the brother of Mniconju headman Corn named Little Hawk (I), who died in a raid by Crows on Corn's tiyospaye in 1844. Corn's wife was killed in the same fight, and Corn decided to take care of his brother's family. This family included three daughters and one son, who was then given the name of his deceased father, Little Hawk (II). Interestingly enough, Corn's own daughters (from his first marriage) married Worm/CH, who helped raise young Crazy Horse and so a significant bond existed between Corn's (new) family and Worm/CH's family. Little Hawk (II) would have been at a very similar age as Crazy Horse, thus they could have become kola (close friends). This Mniconju Little Hawk (II) may have been killed in 1870 by miners.

Second, there is the Oglala Little Hawk (III), who supposedly is a half-brother of Worm/CH. Kingsley Bray states that his mother's name was Good Haired Otter (b. 1812), and that he was born in 1836. If the year is correct, then Worm's father Makes The Song would have obviously lived longer than 1830-1835. We do know Little Hawk (III) was one of the key Oglala leaders and comrades in arms for Crazy Horse during the 60's and 70's wars, and quite possibly his kola. He lived to witness the reservation times.

And then, to add to the confusion, the previously challenged contention that Worm had another son by the name of Little Hawk (IV)...

Carlo

[hreinn]

Thanks Carlo !

Your good remarks about Little Hawk has drawn my attention to a failure in the original post above about Crazy Horse's relatives.
(Young) Little Hawk is not also known as (aka) High Horse.
Therefore in Part I under Generation 1 and the second name in the list of Crazy Horse and his sisters and brothers, should correctly be written High Horse (b.1850, d.?)
Instead of (Young) Little Hawk (aka High Horse, His Horse Stands In Sight (b.1850, d.1870).
The same applies for the same error in Part II at the end of the discussion under Parents.

I had always assumed that Little Hawk was the Oglala version of the name of Crazy Horse's brother who died in 1870.
And High Horse was the Miniconju version of his name (perhaps his first given name) before he got the name Little Hawk.
That is, the same person with 2 different names (Oglala vs. Miniconju).
But after viewing again the DVD Part I from the Clown family, I see it is not correct.

This misunderstanding of mine came because in both cases we are talking about the second son of Worm.
That is:
a) the second son of Worm who he had with his wife was according the Oglalas called Little Hawk
b) the second son of Worm who he had with his wife Iron Between Horns was according to the Miniconju Clown family called High Horse


What the Clown family says about High Horse on their DVD Part I:
High Horse was the son of Worm and Iron Between Horns, born 1850 and died one and a half years after his son's birth. They don't give the name of his wife nor his child nor the year of his death. Based on the birth year of other children of Worm, High Horse was the second son of Worm. The Clown family also describes the "courting" of High Horse to his wife before he got her. This seems to be the same story as Oglala Lakota Black Elk told about High Horse in the book Black Elk Speaks. They say that High Horse was killed by the Crows.

The Clown family only mentions 2 Little Hawks on their DVD Part I:
Little Hawk 1 = brother of Chief Corn. They don't mention when or how he died. They don't say that he was killed in the Crow attack during the winter 1844-1845. They don't mention the family of Little Hawk 1, except his son Little Hawk 2.
Little Hawk 2 = son of Little Hawk 1. He got close to Crazy Horse and was killed by miners in 1870.

On the DVD Part I, The Clown family does not mention Little Hawk whom some photographs of exists. An example of a photograph of him can be seen on lbha.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Indians&action=print&thread=1519. Perhaps they mention him in their most recent Part IV.

Little Hawk on the photographs is obviously not Little Hawk 2, because according to the Clown family Little Hawk 2 died in 1870 and the photograph(s) are from 1877 or later.
Little Hawk on the photographs could in theory be Little Hawk 1, but it is higly unlikely. Because on the photographs he seems to be too young to be a blood brother of Chief Corn (b.1798, d.1884).
Therefore Little Hawk on the photographs must be Little Hawk 3.

On the DVD Part I, the Clown family excludes the existance of Little Hawk 4, that is Oglala Little Hawk who was brother or half-brother of Crazy Horse and died in 1870. According to a statement by the Clown family this is Little Hawk 2 (= son of Little Hawk 1 (Corn's brother)). The Clown family says; "Little Hawk was never a brother to Crazy Horse".

If we accept the Miniconju Lakotas Little Hawk 1 as brother of Corn and Little Hawk 2 as son of Little Hawk 1.
Then we have Little Hawk 3 and Little Hawk 4 according to the Oglala Lakotas.


We have 5 possible versions:

Version 1

Little Hawk 1 (Miniconju) = brother of Chief Corn and Little Hawk on the photographs
Little Hawk 2 (Miniconju) = son of Little Hawk 1 and close friend to Crazy Horse who died in 1870

Version 2

Little Hawk 1 (Miniconju) = brother of Chief Corn
Little Hawk 2 (Miniconju) = son of Little Hawk 1
Little Hawk 3 (Oglala) = half-brother of Worm and Little Hawk on the photographs
Little Hawk 4 (Oglala) = half-brother/brother of Crazy Horse (Worm's second son) who died in 1870.

Version 3

Little Hawk 1 (Miniconju) = brother of Chief Corn
Little Hawk 2 (Miniconju) = son of Little Hawk 1 and close friend to Crazy Horse who died in 1870.
Little Hawk 3 (Oglala) = half-brother of Worm and Little Hawk on the photgraphs

Version 4

Little Hawk 1 (Miniconju) = brother of Chief Corn
Little Hawk 2 (Oglala) = half-brother/brother of Crazy Horse (Worm's second son) (Little Hawk 4 in version 2)
Little Hawk 3 (Oglala) = half-brother of Worm and Little Hawk on the photgraphs

Version 5

Little Hawk 1b (Miniconju) = someone related to Chief Corn
Little Hawk 2 (Oglala) = half-brother/brother of Crazy Horse (Worm's second son) (Little Hawk 4 in version 2)
Little Hawk 3 (Oglala) = half-brother of Worm and Little Hawk on the photgraphs


Hreinn

[hreinn]

Ephriam: Do you know what the Oglala oral history says about the name of Little Hawk's mother ?
Little Hawk who was Crazy Horse's brother and Worm's son.
Little Hawk 4 in the Version 2 in the above post.

Hreinn

[kingsleybray]

“Testimony of Leo Combing in the heirship cases of Red Leg [CRA allotment number] No. 1461, and Julia Rushes No. 1460, deceased Cheyenne River Sioux allottees, taken by M.. E. Gorman, Examiner of Inheritance pursuant to notice herewith.”
Date of testimony: August 13, 1920.

Statements of fact relating to Leo Combing’s parents: Woman Breast (father) and Red Legs (mother), and the latter’s marriage, children, and siblings.
Mother Red Leg died May 22, 1905, age 80 years.
Red Leg was “married one time only to my father, Woman Breast.” This marriage took place “over 70 years ago”, i.e. prior to 1850.
Woman Breast died about 20 years ago [1900] “and was not allotted so far as I know.” He belonged to Cheyenne River Sioux. He lived with Red Legs “until he died”. Leo does not think that Woman Breast married any other woman in his lifetime, and he has no half-brothers and half-sisters.
Asked to name all the children of Woman Breast and Red Leg, Leo states that they had “seven [children] in all”, naming them as
1. Shell Blanket, daughter, died 46 years ago [1874]
2. Leo Combing, age 69 [born ca. 1851]
3. James Bear Pipe
4. Peter Wolf
Rest of list/page is illegible.
“Were these all the children your mother ever had?”
“They were all she ever had.”
“Did she ever adopt a child?”
“No she never did.”
..............................
“Who were the father and mother of Red Leg?
“I have heard that her father’s name was Corn but I don’t know her mother’s name and that is all I know about them.
..........................
“Did she have any brothers and sisters and if so, name them and tell what you can about them.
“She had two sisters that I saw and I have heard of others but never saw them. One was called Iron Between Horns, and the other one was called Kills Enemy. These are all the names that I know. She had one brother that died before I was born, when the Indians had some sickness and he was called Bull Head, never married, and never had issue, both sisters died before allotments.”
“Was Iron Between Horns married and if so, how many times?”
“She was married one time.”
“Who was her husband?”
“Crazy Horse”.
“How and when were they married?”
“Indian custom long ago.”
“Is he [Crazy Horse] living or dead?”
“He is dead.”
“When did he die?”
“He died about 40 years ago [i.e., ca. 1880]”.
“Did they have any children and if so, how many?”
“They had one, a boy.”
“What was his name?”
“High Horse.”
“Is he living or dead?”
“He died long ago, before allotments when a young man, killed in an Indian war, and left no issue. There is nothing left of her family at all.”
“Was Kills Enemy married and if so, how many times?”
“She was married to the same as Iron Between Horns, Crazy Horse, by the old Indian custom, and she died first, then Crazy Horse died and last Iron Between Horns died and all of them died long before allotments.”
“Did Kills Enemy have any children and if so, how many?”
“She had two is what I have heard but they both died before I was born and there is nothing left of her family.”
“Do you know anything more about the family history of Red Leg?”
“That is all I know about it.”
The rest of Leo’s testimony concerns his own marriage to Julia Rushes.

[kingsleybray]

hello everyone,

I have just posted the above excerpt from testimony made by Leo Combing in 1920. This document was made available to me in 2001 by friends at Cheyenne River, and I used it in the genealogical sections of my biography of Crazy Horse.

It represents a much earlier version of Clown family traditions regarding their connection to Crazy Horse than the DVD material cited at length by hreinn above, and I post it in the spirit of getting more data 'out there' so that families and students can come to informed conclusions about the Crazy Horse genealogy.

Note that all references to Crazy Horse in the testimony refer to Crazy Horse Sr. or Worm, the father of the Oglala war chief. Leo's statement was interepreted by Mary Talks (a relative). It indicates his understanding that his father Woman Breast and Worm/Crazy Horse Sr. were two different men, with two different dates of death given. Leo also avers that his father Woman Breast only married once, and that all his children were by his only wife (and Leo's mother) Red Legs.

Kingsley Bray

[hreinn]

Still another testimony from a Lakota person who contradicts the testimony of the modern Clown family on their DVD Part I.
This is not from a white historian.
This is not some Lakota person commenting on another Lakota family.
This is from within the Clown family.
This is from one of the alleged half-brother of Crazy Horse.

Based on the testimony of Leo Combing and others there were 3 families, rather than 2 families.
Family 1 = Worm + Rattling Blanket Woman who had Crazy Horse and Looks At Her
Family 2 = Worm + Iron Between Horse + Kills Enemy who had High Horse and 2 twin daughters who did not survive.
Family 3 = Woman Breast + Red Legs (Red Leggings) who had Shell Blanket, Sacred Girl, Leo Combing, James Bear Pipe, Peter Wolf, Iron Cedar (aka Julia Clown) and Comes Home Last

Hreinn

[swiftbird659]

OK, I have a question please? If the daughter of Lone Horn and Stands on Ground is Ida Crow or Two White Cows a sister of Bigfoot and Touch the Clouds would i be considered a relative or heir in some way to C.H. if my g,g, grandmother was Ida Crow or Two White Cows, Cheyenne River Sioux Allottee No. 2685,1862-1945 aka Ida Gets Off or Mrs. Luke Gets Off now Mrs. John Crow?

[kingsleybray]

I guess you'd have to follow up with the court case which I guess is still going on at Rosebud. As a descendant of Lone Horn you would be a descendant of a closely related family to Crazy Horse.

[miyelo]

the clowns are clowns. some of the family trees they and others have made are a joke around the rez. the oral traditions, the only TRUE reality and history, are what matters. And those relatives don't go around talking about it or going to court for it or doing dvds about it. They know who they are and where they are from and who their relative and ancestors are.
funny how no one here cares, but ''out there'' there is so much speculation and theories. It's like ''Is Elvis Alive?"
Crazy Horse is dead and only some know where is remains lie, and not one theory that has been passed around is correct.
But have fun!
hi Kingsley hope all is well with you!

[swiftbird659]

Thank you very much for all your help here. I was able to contact the Rose Bud Tribal Court about the Crazy Horse case. The first part is complete and they are working on a second part that is still on going. They are still gathering family histories and oral testomonies from i believe three different reservations , Rose Bud, Pine Ridge, and Cheyenne River. Rose Bud is the place to start. I was able to get the contact person in Eagle Butte.