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Post by kakarns on Nov 29, 2012 19:58:27 GMT -5
ladonna, Nov. 18, 2012 "This reference, like I mentioned before, does not list a name for, Black Tomahawk's wife. However, it does mention he had a wife and two children during this land dispute. I believe that Black Tomahawk's wife's name was "Fat Woman"." Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=twokettle1&action=post&thread=1637&page=1#ixzz2Df4UEFu1I am aware of several Native American's having the same name. I once printed 62 pages of the wrong person so, this was the beginning stages of learning that, for me. I perhaps, (with limited resources), get overly excited and need to choose my words more carefully. I guess I should have said; "I believe that Black Tomahawk's wife's name may have possibly been, Fat Woman." So therefore, the Black Tomahawk b. 1843, in your Reply #4 was the man who I posted about and not, the man who married Fat Woman. Is that correct ? Question: Do you know which, Black Tomahawk did marry Fat Woman ? kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 29, 2012 4:47:41 GMT -5
Pine Ridge Agency, Medicine Root District, 1891, #1 - 998 NO., INDIAN NAME, ENGLISH NAME, SEX, RELATION, AGE
[Note]: I will do my best. Not all the Lakota names were listed. Hand written document. Anything I am uncertain of, will have a "?" mark.
116 # 487 - Wanbli naca, Chief Eagle, M, hus, 42 # 438 - Jennie Morrison, F, wife, 34 # 439 - Agnis, F, gr da, 6 # 440 - Inyan sa, Red Stone, M, son, 9 # 441 - John Dillon, M, st son, 11 # 442 - Hunter, M, son, 21
117 # 443 - Eliza Flood, F, mo, 29 ? # 444 - Warpanica ole, Looks for Poor, M, son, 7 # 445 - Ito ? sankiyce ?, White Face, M, bro, 36
118 # 446 - Louisa Cazor ?, F, mo, 26 # 447 - Wicanpiya, Star, F, da, 1
119 # 448 - Wanbli Wakuwa, Charging Eagle, M, hus, 56 # 449 - Ataya, All of it, F, wife, 57 # 450 - Tahu, Rosa Neck, F, niece, 10 # 451 - Owl Head, M, son, 9
120 # 452 - Maka ole, Hunts Skunk, M, hus, 59 # 453 - Iktomi misnela ?, Round Spider, F, wife, 71 # 454 - Wagula waste, Pretty worm, F, da, 44
121 # 455 - Tatanka Pwenpaya ?, Laying Bull, M, hus, 20 ? # 456 - Sunkawkan winla, Horse Woman, F, wife, 21 ? # 457 - Ota agli, Brings Many, F, da, 1
122 # 458 - Wioteri ? Hard Woman, F, da, 20 (something) ? # 459 - Kansu tauka, Big Card, F, mo, 49 # 460 - Can iyuwi, Tough Wood, F, da, 10 # 461 - Wastila, Pretty, M, son, 7 # 462 - Wanbli, Eagle, F, da, 12 ?
[Note]: I apologize, this document, is very hard to read, the right side of the pg. is partially missing and is very dark in some places. Very difficult to read. Could use some help with this one. Especially, with Lakota names and correct translation. Beautiful hand writting but, hard to read.
Refer: Kansas City Archieves, Kansas City, MO
kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 28, 2012 20:14:47 GMT -5
Medicine Root Creek District Census NO., ENGLISH NAME, SEX, RELATION, AGE
158 # 601 - Philip Slow Dog, M, Fath, 30 # 602 - No Name, M, son, 3 # 603 - Long Cheyenne Woman, F, mot, 52 # 604 - Blue Cloud, F, gr mot, 68 ?
159 # 605 - Brule Woman, F, gr mot, 63 # 606 - Talk about her, F, gr da, 13
160 # 607 - Red Rabbit, M, Father, 40 # 608 - First Cow, F, Wife, 60 # 609 - Goes in the center, F, Da, 11
161 # 610 - Short Pine, M, Hus, 65 # 611 - Walking Red, F, Wife, 65 # 612 - No Name, M, gr son, 1
162 # 613 - Spotted Elk, M, Father, 34 # 614 - Brown Cedar, F, Wife, 35 # 615 - Drives them away, M, son, 3
163 # 616 - Good Crow, F, mot, 20 (Note added later ?) January 19, 1891, Boy, m, son, 1 m # 617- Red Leaf, F, Da, 3
164 # 618 - (Note) hus from 418 wc, Daughter from 418 wc Eagle Blanket, F, 35
165 # 619 - Charging Eagle, M, Hus, 55 # 620 - No Name, F, Wife, 56 # 621 - Owl Head, M, gr son, 8
166 # 622 - Henry Spotted Eagle, M, Father, 26 # 623 - Comes after her horse, F, Wife, 23 # 624 - Eagle Cane, F, Da, 6 # 625 - No Name, F, Da, 1
[Note]: Uncertain of the year of this Cenus. 1889, 1890 or, 1891 ???
Refer: Kansas City Archieves, Kansas City, MO
kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 24, 2012 14:01:02 GMT -5
SPOTTED TAIL WIDOW #2
[Note:] I will call this PART II of; Spotted Tail Widow #2 (aka), Her Black Lodge.
This next list of names, were the actual heirs of, the estate. Due to the fact, most all of, Her Black Lodge's close descendant's had passed on.
1.) Hearing Her Horse Voice (aka), Hears Horse, (aka), Horse Voice, (aka), Hoarse Voice - sister 2.) Margaret Claymont, daughter of prior dec. sis; Arrow Head or Arrow Point 3.) Fannie M. Powell, daughter of prior dec. half-sis; Transparent Stone 4.) Eagle Hill or Mrs. Revenge, daughter of prior dec. half-sis ; Star Woman or Big Woman 5.) White Wolf, son of prior dec. half-sis; Good Earth or Ground 6.) Rattling Woman or White Feather Tail, daughter of prior dec. half-sis; Good Earth or Ground 7.) Lone Bear, son of sub. dec. half-sis; Elbow or White Mountain 8.) Bluffing Bear, son of sub. dec. half-sis; Elbow or White Mountain 9.) Patrick Bitter (or,Bitters), son of sub. dec. half-sis; Elbow or White Mountain 10.) Fat Woman or Mrs. Black Tomahawk, dau. of sub. dec. half-sis; Elbow or White Mountain 11.) Mary Gazeaux, dau. of sub. dec. half-sis Elbow or White Mountain
[Note]: #3.) Fannie M. Powell was, (aka), Top Of The Head, (aka), Pecokanwin, my G.G. Grandmother.
Refer.'s: Using the same reference's listed above in my first post, in the new thread.
Thanks, kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 24, 2012 6:51:56 GMT -5
PART I:
As many of you may have read, my G. G. Grandmother, was an heir to 1/6 of Chief Spotted Tail's Estate. I will try and state my sincere and honest intentions here.
I am not sure about where or, how to post this. So, after some thought, I have decided to start a new Thread. (It can be moved later if, felt necessary.)
Out of the up most respect to the Spotted Tail family, I must say that, my intentions here are heart felt, innocent and contain much pride. Also, I would like to ask that, who ever reads this, does so with the same respect !
I am, one of the very few from my large family (if not the only one) that, has spent so much of my time trying to figure this out.
If, any of the Spotted Tail family reads this and wants to contact me, I would very much appreciate it and would love to meet you.
I am only trying to figure out who I am and to discover my relatives. My main goal here is to try and figure out who my G. G. G. Grandmother was and if, at all possible, who her parents were etc.. To continue my lineage work.
For many years, a few of my family members and myself were trying to figure out who the woman listed as, Widow #2 really was. Approx. 2 or, 3 yrs. ago some documents were found.
1.) Long story short, per William Spotted Tail's statement, his father had five wives and he gave the following names:
Hears Horse, Black Lodge, Red Crane, Loosen, Yellow Leaf
2.) Per: National Achieves and Record Administration (NARA) Central Plains Regional Office - Kansas City, MO states the following: Allotment Name; Her Black Lodge English Name; Spotted Tail's Widow #2
3.) Per: ALLOTMENT OR ESTATE RECORD, ROSEBUD Reservation - Spotted Tail Widow #2, b. 4-18-19, d. 3-5-11
[Note:] At the time of this document, Hear Her Horse Voice or Horse Voice (aka), Hoarse Voice appeared to be the only living Heir who, was living at the time of, Her Black Lodge's death.
Heirs of Spotted Tail Widow #2 were as follows: sister - Hearing Her Horse Voice (aka), Hears Horse, (aka), Horse Voice, (aka), Hoarse Voice sister - Arrow Head or Arrow Point half sister - Transparent Stone half sister - Star Woman or Big Woman half sister - Good Earth or Ground half sister - Elbow or White Mountain
Closing Comments: 1.) My G. G. G. Grandmother was; Transparent Stone, [may possibly be (aka), Close Together, one of the wives of Charging Eagle. However, most documents I have, only state that his wife was Close Together, with the exception of one document.] 2.) My G. G. Grandmother was; Fannie M. Powell, (aka), Top Of The Head, (aka), Pecokanwin 3.) Please refer to my comments above about respect. I am also posting this to try to help. Please don't abuse that !!!! 4.) I will help you, if..., you will help me. 5.) Thank you American Tribe's and it's members.
Refer's: A.) National Achieves and Record Administration (NARA) Central Plains Regional Office - Kansas City, MO B.) ALLOTMENT OR ESTATE RECORD, SPOTTED TAILS WIDOW #2 Dated; March 2, 1889 C.) 5-405 a, INHERITED INTEREST IN ESTATES, Kansas City Achieves D.) DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, OFFICE OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, WASHINGTON, March 19, 1921
Sincerely, kakarns, (aka), WICAHPI WAMBLI
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Post by kakarns on Nov 24, 2012 4:30:02 GMT -5
The next pg. (5 ?) of Census I will share is probably also, from the Kansas City Archieves. It is titled; Indian Males Above 21 years, 1889.
It is hand written. The English names are easier to read therefore, I will list the # assigned, name and age. However, if you have any questions, I will try to read the Lakota names. I will try to do my best.
# 85 Returns from Scout (Sr.), 45 # 86 Spotted Weasel, 59 # 87 Returns from Scout (Jr.), 23 # 88 Thunder Bull, 40 # 89 White Wolf, 40 # 90 Sand, 45 # 91 White Dress, 50 # 92 Wolf sheds Hair, 39 # 93 White Deer, 31 # 94 Kills Enemy, 34 # 95 Spotted Eagle, 62 # 96 Old Horse, 29 # 97 Bull Bear (Jr.), 33 # 98 He Crow, 51 # 99 Little Bull, 24 # 100 His War, 22 # 101 Charging Eagle, 54 # 102 Seven Rabbits, 52 # 103 Feather Ear ring, 26 # 104 Young Dog, 32 # 105 Little Wound, 58 # 106 Bull Bear (Sr.), 61
[Note]: Charging Eagle's Lakota name is listed as Wam li Watakpe
Refer: Kansas City Archieves
Thanks, kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 23, 2012 9:30:12 GMT -5
Back on May 4, 2012, I received a pg. 92 from the 1901 Census.
It contains the following about Charging Eagle and his wife;
# 4412 Wanbli Watakpe, Charging Eagle, M, Head, 67 (= b. 1833) # 4413 Gilciyo ?-win, Paints Herself Brown, F, Wife, 59 (= b. 1842)
[Note added]: I believe this was probably a Meat Record (Census)
Also, comparing to the TWELFTH CENSUS OF THE UNTIED STATES. SCHEDULE No. 1 -- POPULATION. INDIAN POPULATION. Pine Ridge Indian Reservation June 27, 1900
Charging Eagle, M, Head, b. Aug. 1833, 66, married 7 yrs. Paints Herself Yellow, F, b. Oct. 1841, 58, married 7 yrs.
[Note added] Therefore, I would say the Meat Record Census was done sometime after August of 1900. Notice, Charging Eagle was Wanbli Watakpe on the Meat Records and age was 67 instead of, 66 as stated on the June 27, 1900 Census. The pg. of which I am referring to, Census of June 27, 1900 also includes, part of the Good Voice Crow family, the Yellow Bull's and Spotted Weasel's families etc..
I believe Charging Eagle was referred to by different Lakota names by different agents etc.. Perhaps some confusion due to, so many Lakota's with the same name and maybe he wanted them to be confused. ??? I don't know. I think Kingsley is right on with his definitions.
kakarns
Refer's: 1901 Meat Record Census ? Pine Ridge Census June 27, 1900 Rec. from: LaDeane Miller
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Post by kakarns on Nov 23, 2012 7:49:58 GMT -5
From Research 11-22-12
" In 1841, the Oglala fought amoung themselves and the Kiyuska band (meaning the cut-offs) seperated from the rest. The Oglala experimented for a time with agriculture when settled with the Arikara and adopted their horticultural economy, but this was cut short when small-pox arrived on the scene. In 1913, James Walker listed seven Oglala bands. Twenty-nine years earlier, the Rev. W. J. Cleveland (1884) enumerated a full 20 bands."
1. Iteshicha 2. Payahya 3. Oyukhpe 4. Tapishlecha 5. Peshla 6. Chekhuhaton 7. Wablenicha 8. Peshlaptechela 9. Tashnahecha 10. Iwayusota 11. Wakan 12. (a) Iglakatekhila (b) Iteshicha 13. Iteshichaetanhan 14. Kiyuksa 15. Wacheonpa 16. Wachape 17. Tiyochesli 18. Waglukhe 19. Oglala 20. Ieskachincha
Any thoughts ? kakarns
Refer.: "The Dakota Peoples: A History of the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota Through 1863" by; Jessica Dawn Palmer
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Post by kakarns on Nov 23, 2012 7:31:16 GMT -5
Kingsley thank you for your latest post's. It is very helpful.
The next Meat Record I will post is from the Kansas City Archieves and it is VERY hard to read the hand written names so....I will do my best. This is noted from my source, to be a mixture of Sioux and Cheyenne camped near Wounded Knee and unfortunately, has no date attached.
I will place a question mark by names that I am unsure of. The pg. starts with:
# 24 - Three Stars
Sam ? Brown Jack LaPont ? (LaPoint ?) White Rabbit First Walk Saying Bull C. J. Stars Red Cloud Mrs. Red Kettle Guy Three Stars
#25 - Thunder Bull
Ralph Old Horse Wolfskin Belt White Coat Lone Man Jumping Up Young Bull Bear Star *Charging Eagle Iron Goose
# 26 - Spotted Weasel
Sits ? Bear Lone Bear White Eyes Rock Thunder Woman Yellow
kakarns
[Note] Made corrections to the names: Ralph Old Horse (per Kingsley's Reply # 17), Wolfskin Belt and Jack Lapoint. I hope that this is more accurate now. 11-24-12
Refer.: Kansas City Archieves, Pine Ridge Census (Meat Records), Sioux and Cheyenne camped near Wounded Knee, No Date Listed
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Post by kakarns on Nov 21, 2012 18:32:36 GMT -5
carlo - I have never heard of this before. In reference to "a" Crazy Horse being a brother to Chief Little Wound.
However, I have read that a man referred to as, "Greasy Head" (aka), "Greasy Hand" took (or, changed) his name to; "Albert Crazy Horse" (aka), "Crazy Horse #2 after, he married "Chief Crazy Horse's" widow.
It seems that I read about this while, doing research on some of my relatives, "Little Horse" (aka), "Young Dog" because, Little Horse married Julia Crazy Horse.
Some of this info is on "Mike Stevens" site if, you search under the name "Crazy Horse".
Refer.'s Mike Stevens "Letters of Mari Sandoz" by Mari Sandoz, Helen Winter Stauffer
kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 21, 2012 18:00:25 GMT -5
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Post by kakarns on Nov 20, 2012 18:52:58 GMT -5
Here is the complete list of names from the pg. that I have from; Medicine Root District Census/Meat Records 1886:
# 15 - High Bear; Star His Sneeze Deer Hair Young Bull Bear Wolf Skin Belt Jumping Up Drives Away
# 16 - Spotted Weasel; Lays Bad Good Voice Crow Lone Man
# 17 - Left Hand; Fly Above Yellow Wolf Yellow Bull White Dress Sam Last Horse
#18 - One Feather; Charging Eagle Bear Wolf Spotted Elk Standing Cloud
Thanks, kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 20, 2012 4:52:29 GMT -5
Medicine Root District, ca 1886 Census (Meat Records):
One Feather - 3
[with One Feather]: Charging Eagle - 3 Bear Wolf - 5 Spotted Elk - 3 Standing Cloud - 8
[Total= 22]
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Post by kakarns on Nov 18, 2012 10:35:41 GMT -5
Hello Dietmar,
Thank you !
kakarns
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Post by kakarns on Nov 18, 2012 8:27:00 GMT -5
While doing research on "Black Tomahawk", I found a very good reference with allot of good information. However, some names that I was looking for, do not appear in this reference. I was looking for the name of Black Tomahawk's wife. Although, like I mentioned above, it is still a good reference containing other important names, dates, places, etc.. Unless I have overlooked it, this reference does not give the D.O.B. for, Black Tomahawk. Here are some notes that I have compiled from this reference: pg. 28; Tod chouk Pee sappah, Black Tomahawk, signed the treaty with the Yanktonai band of Dakota or Sioux Indians, October 20, 1865 (14 Stat. L., p.736) April 29, 1868. - Can hpi sa pa, Black Tomahawk, signs Sioux treaty, as a member of Yanktonais band of Sioux (Stat. L., vol. 15, p. 1868) pg. 29; - As cauh pi sapa, Black Tomahawk, signs the agreement of February 28, 1877 as a Lower Yanktonias (U.S. Stat. L., vol. 19, p. 258) pg. 35; - Black Tomahawk states that he is the son of, Mah to non pah "Catch the enemy". Black Tomahawk also gives reference to the name, "Little Chief". pg. 53; On February 10, 1890, Black Tomahawk being duly sworn, states that he is a member of the "Two Kettle" band etc.. pg. 56 & 57; states that Black Tomahawk has a brother named "Little Skunk". pg. 58; states that Black Tomahawk's brother, Little Skunk was (aka), Little Chief. pg. 65; Some confusion sets in !!! In reference to, Black Tomahawk previously stating, his father as, Mah to non pah (refer back to pg. 35) and the fact that, Mah to non pah was "Two Bears". This may have been a error by Black Tomahawks attorney. ? It is also mentioned that a Little Chief signed a treaty as a Arapahoe. pg. 76; states again, Little Chief, better known as Little Skunk, was a brother to Black Tomahawk. pg. 83; Black Tomahawk, duly sworn, Fort Pierre, S. DAK., February 3, 1891. [Very good information contained here.] Including, listing William Larabee as Black Tomahawk's interpreter. pg. 92; Black Tomahawk states that his grandmother on his father's side was, "Swimming". pg. 98; Pierre, S. DAK., April 9, 1891, Black Tomahawk states that his father was Catch the Enemy, his father was, "Rattling Rib". He was the chief of the Two Kettle Band of Sioux Indians, of 700 lodges. "My father was chief, and now that he is dead I am chief. Our home has been for a great number of years on the Bad River, where our tribe still lives." Closing comments: This reference, shows a long....drawn out land battle. This is a must read. This reference, like I mentioned before, does not list a name for, Black Tomahawk's wife. However, it does mention he had a wife and two children during this land dispute. I believe that Black Tomahawk's wife's name was "Fat Woman". Please feel free to add some photo's of Black Tomahawk and family if, you have any. Reference: "United States Congressional Serial Set, Issue 3160" Link; books.google.com/books?id=_G03AQAAIAAJ&pg=RA8-PA28&dq=Can+hpi+sa+pa+Black+Tomahawk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tVuMUIqvIKig2QXy0YHIDg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Can%20hpi%20sa%20pa%20Black%20Tomahawk&f=falseReference to; Fat Woman: "ALLOTMENT OR ESTATE RECORD", "SPOTTED TAILS WIDOW No. 2" Thanks, kakarns
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