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Post by charlie on Jun 18, 2009 4:16:49 GMT -5
Dietmar: in your first photo, the third man starting from left is not FUN but (very probably) TSISNAH. In your second photo, the man standing far right in surely FUN.
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Post by charlie on Jun 17, 2009 11:56:42 GMT -5
I have a doubt about the wonderful photo of the "Lawrence T. Jones" collection. The chief at extreme right is indeed BIG TREE? The fur-hat on his head is typical of the very important Kiowa's caste named "Onde". I already have seen that hat weared by MOM-A-DAY-TE (Medicine Bundle), the adopte son of Lone Wolf and famous warrior. This last is very similar at the man in the mentioned photo.
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Post by charlie on Jun 17, 2009 5:06:46 GMT -5
Grahamew: our mysterious man IS NOT NAICHE! There are a lot of images of him for make a comparison, but i'm sure that he is another person. Jeroen: what is the exact position of Naiche in your photo? At the extreme right of Geronimo, of profile?
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Post by charlie on Jun 16, 2009 6:03:55 GMT -5
Thanks Jinlian! Grahamew and Jeroen: yes, the man is him! Returning to the first photo of the conuncil, posted at page 1 of this thread, and more clear than the one posted by Jeroen, are recognizable: in first row Geronimo and Nana; to the left of Nana is Noche (or Not-shi) with the dark hat. Standing, in the last row, are: Tsisnah (?) - Ulzana - Lazyah (always with the strange war cap...). In front of Ulzana, sitting, is Chihuahua. Behind gen. Crook are (sitting) Yanozha and Fun. These are the names that i have. It's right?
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Post by charlie on Jun 15, 2009 9:36:53 GMT -5
I never seen images of the important warriors TSISNAH and KAYTAH. And you? At regarding LAZIYAH, he also appear standing in second row, with a similar strange war cap, in the photos about the famous council of 1886 at Canyon de los Embudos. And also CHIHUAHUA was present in that occasion, sitting near NANA. Our mysterious "man in white" remain a rebus. It's incredible: he always was in front row in the various photos made at the time, then he surely was a great chief. What a pity don't know his name!
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Post by charlie on Jun 11, 2009 1:58:09 GMT -5
Hi Dietmar. I have another line-up of the image; the five men standing are (L to R): LAZIYAH - unknown - FUN - GERONIMO - NAICHE
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Post by charlie on Jun 10, 2009 8:14:21 GMT -5
Who is, in the photo labelled "Fly, 1886", the warrior standing second from left (all white dressed)? He appears in many images of Fly, but i never see his name..... I belive that he was a very important warrior or chief.
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Taza
Jun 9, 2009 8:20:55 GMT -5
Post by charlie on Jun 9, 2009 8:20:55 GMT -5
I can confirm that the man at the start of this thread is a chiricahua scout named NOCHE or NOTSHI. Unfortunately, don't exsist photo about famous chief TAZA. And yes, is him the man with the hat and army coat in the Fly's photo.
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Post by charlie on Apr 22, 2009 9:37:13 GMT -5
About the following chiefs, i have these indian's name: - BAD WOUND = Owe (wound) Sica (bad) - LITTLE WOUND = Taopi (wound) Cikala (little) May be the words "owe" and "taopi" have the same meaning ("wound") ?
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Post by charlie on Apr 7, 2009 8:10:57 GMT -5
Great images! I am sure that the photo under "Woman's Heart", labelled "Young man-Kiowa", belonged to a great warrior named MAMAY DAY TE, adopted son of chief Lone Wolf.
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Post by charlie on Mar 25, 2009 2:40:26 GMT -5
Dietmar: my reason is simply based looking at the above map. White Antelope = band n. 2 Lone Bear/One Eye = band n. 3 Hyde stated that every chief leaded a different band. And what do you think about the tell of Chief Wolf (Fur/Rope Men band)?
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Post by charlie on Mar 24, 2009 8:52:29 GMT -5
From George Hyde's book, this is the detailed map of Sand Creek camp (from L to R): 1- chief War Bonnet - Oi'vimana band (Scabby Men) 2- chief White Antelope - Hisiometa'nio band (Ridge Men) 3- chief Lone Bear/One Eye - name of the band not mentioned 4- chief Black Kettle - Wu'tapiu band (Eater) 5- chief Left Hand - Southern Arapaho 6- chief Sand Hill - Heviqs'ni'pahis band (Closed Aorta) Still, Hyde mentioned chief Yellow Wolf of the Hevhaita'nio band (Fur/Rope Men) that not appear in the map above, and he added that the Masikota and Hotamita'nio (Dog Soldiers) bands were not present. Hence, White Antelope and Lone Bear/One Eye cannot belonged at the same band. In another chapter of the book, there is the tale of the battle done by Wolf Chief (Fur/Rope Men band) that, talking about the murdered of Lean Bear, said: "...several soldiers were killed. Among the OURS died Lean Bear and Star, another warrior, and many were wounded...". I think that ,very probably, the band of birth of LEAN BEAR and BULL BEAR was the "Fur/Rope Men" band. The only doubt i have is about the n. 3 band of Lone Bear/One Eye. May be that it'is the same of the old Yellow Wolf, mentioned apart by Hyde? P.S. Black Kettle is metioned as chief of "Wu'tapiu/Eater" band. Truly, his band of birth is the "Shutaio". He become "Wu'tapiu" by marriage. Can some experts help to explain my doubts?
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Post by charlie on Mar 23, 2009 9:53:47 GMT -5
At which band belonged BULL BEAR and his brother LEAN BEAR? I belive to the HEVHAITA'NIO (Hairy Men) of Southern Cheyenne, but i am not sure. WOLF CHIEF, that belonged at this band, was a direct witness at the killing of Lean Bear in 1864. He talk of this episode in George Hyde book "Life of G. Bent written from his letters".
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Post by charlie on Mar 23, 2009 9:22:28 GMT -5
I don't remember in which board, but i had read that Arapaho chief BIG COW killed major Elliott in the battle of Washita (1868). G. Grinnell in "The fighting Cheyennes" said that Elliott was killed by ROMAN NOSE THUNDER (Cheyenne) or TOBACCO (Arapaho). No mention was made about Big Cow. Virginia C. Trenholm in "The Arapahoes, our people", great expert of this tribe, never told about him. Can somebody added more infos about this unknown chief? Was really him the killer of Elliott? Thanks.
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Post by charlie on Jan 16, 2009 7:01:30 GMT -5
Born in 1838 - Southern Cheyenne Indian's name: HO'NEHE VOTOOMAHE He generally was a pacific chief, friend of the Whites, and partecipated to several delegations at Washington. He died in 1910 in the Oklahoma Reserve.
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