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Post by ouroboros on Jun 6, 2022 2:55:40 GMT -5
Another chapter of the warfare between the Nde and the Comanches is the war between an Indian alliance with Spaniards directed agains the Chiricahuas, mainly Chihenne and Chokonen bands. There are some fine observations made by Matthew Babcock, Apache Adaptation to Hispanic Rule, pp. 113-4: Link: books.google.pl/books?id=DsjxDAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Babcock,+Apache+Adaptation&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji8qDgq5j4AhVt_CoKHZA9C_YQ6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Post by ouroboros on May 28, 2022 3:33:40 GMT -5
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Post by ouroboros on May 19, 2022 7:08:37 GMT -5
Or take it in another way. What mean the spanish nickname "Chafaloté" in english ? There are two versions of the name of this chief - Chafalote and Chafarote. The meaning of the second one was explained by W. Griffen, Apaches at War and Peace, p. 28, as "a type of short broad sword".
Possibly, this Nde Chief used this broad sword and was identifited by it by the Spanish authorities who gave him this nickname.
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Post by ouroboros on May 19, 2022 4:26:31 GMT -5
I tried once to figure out what the name could mean. It is mentioned by Geronimo and Betzinez, but there is the problem how it was transcribed from Nde language into English. Of course we must assume it is an Apache name and not an Opatan nickname given to Geronimo's grandfather.
Yesterday, I tried to find a similar word in the book "A Practical Grammar of the San Carlos Apache Language", but I found none.
Perhaps one of the users of Nde descent could be of a better help than me.
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Post by ouroboros on May 18, 2022 8:10:03 GMT -5
The only word for "rock" in Nde language that I know is Tsēē or tséé. But I am not a specialist, and possible the Nde have other words for "rock". Previously I thought that the name Mahko has something to do with "fire", since the "ko" essentialy means fire, but I can be totally wrong.
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Post by ouroboros on May 18, 2022 1:38:55 GMT -5
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Post by ouroboros on May 14, 2022 10:09:40 GMT -5
Thank you so much, coeurrouge! An excellent thread, possible the best treatment of the very complicated issues of the division of Chiricahua gotas ever written! I am eagerly waiting for your every new post.
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Post by ouroboros on May 8, 2022 4:30:09 GMT -5
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Post by ouroboros on May 6, 2022 10:09:27 GMT -5
coeurrouge Thank you so much! The map and the infos on the Chiricahua gotas are excellent! Could you consider to start a separate thread devoted to the issues of the organization of the Chiricahua bands and the distribution of their local groups? I would be very grateful, because it is a fascinating topic.
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 12, 2022 9:50:58 GMT -5
In 1894 a Lipan Apache whose name was Caje, who was probably one of the last member of the Telkondaha band, joined the Lipan reservation. He appears on the census with his family, along with Antonio Apache, his wife and family, plus Antonio's sister and child, and Stella Lester and two sons.
So in 1894 Lipans still claimed membership of the Telkondaha band. Therefore the term "incorporation" is clearly wrong.
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 10, 2022 4:09:46 GMT -5
As for Venancio and the Agua Nueva Apaches, there is a suggestion by Julio L. Betancourt et al., Cultural Recources on the Lincoln National Forest, p. 57, that he might be a non-Mescalero:
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 10, 2022 3:15:04 GMT -5
McCall in one of his letters noted Marco's conversation with F. X. Aubrey:
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 9, 2022 6:23:46 GMT -5
Marco (or Marcos, or even Marcus) was described by Michael Steck as the “head chief” of the Mescaleros living in the “southern portion of the Guadalupe and in the Limpia Mts”. There are some many infos on him, which might interest users of this message boards.
George Archibald McCall mentioned him in his 'Letters from the Frontiers: Written During a Period of Thirty Years' Service in the Army of the United States', p. 518:
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 9, 2022 5:13:46 GMT -5
As it seems, the ethnic affiliation of the Tsebekinende/Augua Nueva Apache is more confused when we take Mexican sources into account. Sometimes the Aquanuevas were called Carrizaleño by the Mexican authorities. The latter term was usually used to decribe a group of Nednai Apaches who resided near Carrizal. But sometimes the Agua Nuevas were also labelled as Carrizaleño Apaches. It is explained by Griffen, Utmost Good Faith: Patterns of Apache-Mexican Hostilities in Northern Chihuahua Border Warfare, 1821-1848, p. 104
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 22, 2022 3:05:35 GMT -5
There was two chief or leader nicknamed Josecito during the 1850's; One was a Sierra Blanca Mescalero and the other a Chihenne or Bedonkohe. But I do not find yet some informations; It was certainly a very common nicknam at this period... Il will checked if I find something interresting. Many thanks, Coeurrouge!
I have found a comment in a footnote of WILLIAM CARR LANE, DIARY which supports your contention :
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