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Post by ouroboros on Jan 4, 2023 8:11:15 GMT -5
Among the many exploits of Pochanaquarhip one can mention: 1845 a raid into Mexico, he led a raid of 730 warriors (the number, however, can be exagerated) 1846 on another raid into Mexico, Pochanaquarhip brought ca. 1000 horses and many prisoners He led the Penateka Comanches in the wars against Cheyennes and Arapahos You can read Buffalo Hump's bio by Dan L. Thrapp, Encyclopedia of Frontier Biography, pp. 186-187: books.google.pl/books?id=iXP58ROs8mgC&pg=PA186&dq=Buffalo+Hump+Comanche&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZreun_K38AhWwmIsKHe8vDLYQ6AF6BAgCEAI#v=onepage&q=Buffalo%20Hump%20Comanche&f=falseThere is another fine bio of Buffalo Hump written by https Justin D. Murphy in: The Encyclopedia of North American Indian Wars, 1607–1890, pp. 98-99://books.google.pl/books?id=JsM4A0GSO34C&pg=PA98&dq=Buffalo+Hump+Comanche+raid+on+Mexico&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiHjNTh_K38AhUD-yoKHV0RDloQ6AF6BAgCEAI#v=onepage&q=Buffalo%20Hump%20Comanche%20raid%20on%20Mexico&f=false
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Post by ouroboros on Dec 23, 2022 10:37:39 GMT -5
One of the neglected and most terrible aspects of warfare between Comanches and Apaches is the scalp hunting activity started ca. 1851 by the authorities of the Mexican state of Chihuahua.
In the year 1849 the Mexican states of Durango and Chihuahua authorized paying 200 pesos per every scalp – the so-called corona consisting of ears and hair. Many scalp-hunter parties took the field against Apaches and Comanches. In 1851, however, a Mexican officer, Emillio Lamberg, noted that although Comanches and Kiowas were raiding in Chihuahua, Apaches already had devastated much of this state. He suggested that the Comanches should be paid for delivered Apache scalps. Tabe Pete and her two sons/grandsons Bajo el Sol and Mague were invited to Chihuahua City, then the so-called - borrowing a phrase coined by Ralph A. Smith - "Scalp Capital of America". Comanches agreed to stop raiding the state and instead concentrate their warlike activities against Apaches. Although in 1851 the Comanches did not attack Apache rancherias, the next year Tave Tuk and Mague have been paid 18000 pesos for scalps of the Apaches.
Judging from the number of money both Comanche chiefs have received, they had to kill at least 90 Apaches.
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Post by ouroboros on Dec 23, 2022 8:44:19 GMT -5
Buffalo Hump or in Comanche "Pochanaquarhip" or "Ko-cho-naw quoip" the former version of his name is variously translated as "male buffalo back" (translation by Thomas W. Kavanagh who argues that it stems from the words "potsana" 'male buffalo' and "kwahipU" 'back' 1) or as "Erection that won't go down' (translation: James L. Haley, the buffalo war, p. 232) was an important war chief of the Penateka division of the Comanche. There are some fine biograms of Buffalo Hump compilled by historians.
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Post by ouroboros on Dec 21, 2022 4:53:25 GMT -5
There are some great books on Native American history in pdf format free for download:
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Post by ouroboros on Dec 17, 2022 13:00:06 GMT -5
I just have seen the western "Eagle's Wing", and there is a scene of a Comanche funeral ritual. I wonder if someone can tell whether it is historically acurate or looks like based on some real ethnographic evidence or was counciled by some Comanche Nation Specialist and therefore it is close to real Numunuu funeral, or it is just some Hollywood made-up scene based on the screenwriter's imagination?
Here is the link to the movie, the scene starts on 22:40:
And the scene in a bad copy:
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 21, 2022 15:07:53 GMT -5
Robert Utley's "Lone Star Justice: the First Century of the Texas Rangers (Oxford 2002)" and "Lone Star Lawmen: The Second Century of the Texas Rangers (Oxford 2007)" were great pieces of scholarship. A great loss for the Native American History.
Requiescat in Pace Robert.
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Post by ouroboros on Sept 22, 2022 10:58:31 GMT -5
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Post by ouroboros on Sept 7, 2022 2:27:14 GMT -5
Yes, it is a good argument against the identification of Mahko with Mano Mocha.
I did some reading. W.B. Griffen, Apaches at War and Peace, p. 149-50, lists the chiefs who signed the peace treaty in 1834: Juan Jose, Chino, Cigarrito, Fuerte, Handi, Manco, Mano Mocha, Pluma, Ronquillo, Teboca.
Griffen argues that: "Manco (one-handed) was never heard of again. Mano [...] was cited now for the last time".
At first, I thought that maybe Manco would be the same man as Mahco, but again considering Geronimo's birth date in 1823 it would make rather impossible to identify Manco with Mahko. Geronimo's own statement that he was born 1829 as Angie Debo showed is rather flawed.
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Post by ouroboros on Sept 6, 2022 2:39:07 GMT -5
What could mean "mah" of "Mahko" ? Is not rock definitely, but one possibility is a corruption from Spanish "manco" which means with no hand, either by genetics or by amputation, there were a person on the same times of Mahko that was named as "mano mocha" or "amputated hand" Definitely the identification of Mano Mocha with Mahko made by ch1 is tempting. In 1813 a Spanish expedition was send to the Mogollon country which invited a chief called Brazo Mocho (it means "Maimed Arm") to peace negotiations. W. B. Griffen, Apaches at War and Peace, p. 94 identifies Brazo as the same man as Mano Mocha. If I am not wrong, there is no mention of a chief called Mahko in the Spanish and Mexican sources (correct me if I am wrong), but he was definitely one of the most important Nde chiefs in the second half of XVIII and I half of XIX century, so the only possibility is that Spanish and Mexican officials knew him by a specific nickname - one of the possibilities is the very Mano Mocha.
Griffen argues also that Mano Mocha was one of the Nde leaders "who remained aloof from Spanish and Mexican administrators".
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Post by ouroboros on Sept 5, 2022 2:17:08 GMT -5
Once again - coeurrouge has based his reconstruction on books, source infos, and personal deductions or intuitions. Some of the relationships between chiefs are confirmed by primary sources, some are hypothetical. There is no certainty for the Nde lineages because even Apaches weren't aware who was related to whom (there is no certainty who was Cochise's father, and Jason Betzinez knew only that Goci was related to Juan Jose Compa, who was not a Chokonen). What's more, we have problems to classify some gotas as parts of certain bands as is the case with the Aqua Nueva (mixed Mescalero-Chiricahua, offshot of Chihenne, or separate and neither Mescalero nor Chiricahua?) However, coeurrouge did a GREAT job and there is no comparable breaking of Chiricahua gotas in any scientific work as far as I know. It is a major achievement and in my opinion the best thread on amertribe proboards.
Feel free to present your alternative vision of the division of Chiriachua gotas and relationships between nantans to that presented by coeurrouge, but please, do it, instead of grumble by stating "many errors" or "I am a skeptic about your intuitions"
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Post by ouroboros on Aug 25, 2022 14:28:23 GMT -5
Daniel Webb wrote this PhD. Thesis and defended it in 2017. It - as the abstract knows - "examines one of the more sustained interactions between Indian nations and European colonists in North America. It traces the history of the diverse populations of Athapaskan-speaking people constituting the Apache and Navajo nations and their relations with the governments of Spain, Mexico, and the United States in the geographical expanse known as the Apachería—a vast region stretching across the present-day states of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas in the American Southwest as well as Sonora, Chihuahua, and Coahuila in northern Mexico".
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Post by ouroboros on Jul 16, 2022 13:14:48 GMT -5
William B. Griffen, Apaches at War and Peace: The Janos Presidio, 1750-1858, p. 54 presented an interesting fact from the Spanish-Comanche war against the Apache in 1786-87 :
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Post by ouroboros on Jul 4, 2022 3:48:35 GMT -5
I'm not an Apache specialist, but wanted to ask what do the experts on American-tribes think about the possible connection from the Jocome, mentioned in late 17th and 18th century Spanish sources, to the Chokonen band of Chiricahua Apache in the 19th century? Interesting question. I am neither a specialist nor an expert, and my knowledge of the history of Native American peoples is rather limited. I have read sometime ago the article by Forbes, 'The Janos, Jocomes, Mansos, and Sumas Indians', New Mexico Historical Review, 32, 2, 1957, pp. 319-334, which presents some interesting arguments for the identification of the Jocome with the Chokonen. He argues that the Jocomes had a definite homeland which is located in the territory between the Pima-Sobaipuris territory of the San Pedro River Valley and the Chiricahua Mountains, and between the Gila River valley and the northern border of Opateria" (p. 321). This in turn would overlap with the territory of the Chiricahua. So Forbes argues that name Chiricahua replaced after 1710 the name Jocome. The second argument is that the very name "Jocome" is a Spanish derivation of the Nde word "Chokonen".
The first argument is in my opinion the strongest.
It is an exciting hypothesis but Forbes in my opinion is to eager to ascribe Athapascan language affiliation for groups for whom there is little evidence - e. g. for him the Janos, the Jocomes, and even the Jumano of Texas were Athapascans. As Schroeder pointed out, the Apaches were named as a separate group from the Jocome and the recorded traits of warfare practiced by them are not similar to those practiced by the Apaches, but to Yuman speaking groups.
However the fact that the name Jocomes dissapears in the XVIII century makes the possibile that they were indeed absorbed by the Apaches. I am very fond of Gary Clayton Anderson's thesis of the Apacheanization of the Southwest and it could be that the Jocomes were apacheanizated during the XVIII century.
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Post by ouroboros on Jul 2, 2022 2:50:11 GMT -5
Many thanks naiches2 for the link!
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Post by ouroboros on Jul 1, 2022 4:08:38 GMT -5
In the 1780s Spanish Colonial Government tried to exterminate the so-called Gila Apaches, mainly Chihenne and Chokonen groups. The Spaniards built a powerful alliance with Native enemies of the Chiricahua - mainly Navajos, Pueblos, Opatas, and Comanches to wipe out the Central Nde. The Chihenne and the warlike Chokonens were, however, a formidable enemy who had the advantage of fighting on their own territory. The allies suffered serious casualties fighting the Chiricahua and the plan of "exterminating the Apaches" did not work out.
As Matthew Babcock in his excellent book Apache Adaptation to Hispanic Rule, pp. 107-8 comments:
Ibidem, pp. 113-4.
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