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Post by ouroboros on Mar 16, 2024 6:07:59 GMT -5
"Since the early 1800s, the violent exploits of “El Indio” Rafael through the settlements of northern New Spain have become the stuff of myth and legend. For some, the fabled Apache was a hero, an indigenous Robin Hood who fought oppressive Spaniards to help the dispossessed and downtrodden. For others, he was little more than a merciless killer. In Son of Vengeance, Bradley Folsom sets out to find the real Rafael—to extract the true story from the scant historical record and superabundance of speculation. What he uncovers is that many of the legends about Rafael were true: he was both daring and one of the most prolific serial killers in North American history".
A must have for me!
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 27, 2023 10:01:43 GMT -5
Utmost good faith: patterns of Apache-Mexican hostilities in northern Chihuahua border warfare, 1821-1848
An excellent and fascinating book devoted to the relations between Apachean groups and Mexians in the territory of Chihuahua. Professor Griffen did a great job in his analisys of the patterns of hostilities between Apaches and Mexicans.
There is a quite few intersting observations on another Native American enemy of the Mexicans - the Comanches.
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 26, 2023 8:30:01 GMT -5
Reading an excellent book by William B. Griffen, Utmost good faith : patterns of Apache-Mexican hostilities in northern Chihuahua border warfare, 1821-1848, I came upon an interesting observation by this scholar on p. 128: On p. 184-5 ibidem:
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 26, 2023 4:53:56 GMT -5
A - lets call it - teaser of a confrontation between Guero Carranza and the most formidable of the Comanche warriors - Bajo el Sol (Under the Sun). More forthcoming... "When Guero recognized the one who accepted his challenge, he called out to Bajo el Sol that he would fight him some other time, and rapidly rode away. Bajo el Sol charged after him but failed to reach him after his spear. When the Mexicans asked him why he had not tried to use his bow and arrows to shoot Guero he replied that, had he killed the chief, the Mexians and Apaches would have said that Guero was a very brave man but now they knew, brave as he might be, he feared Bajo el Sol."
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Post by ouroboros on Aug 28, 2023 1:37:55 GMT -5
Interesting, Nataniju, the leader of the Gota n°7 (mixed Chihenne/Mescalero) in coeurrouge reconstruction, bore a real Apache name, not a Spanish or Opatan nickname. Its etymology was explained by Willem J. de Reuse in his paper 'Apache Names in Spanish and Early Mexican Documents. What They Can Tell Us about the Early Contact Apache Dialect Situation', p. 273 as follows:
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Post by ouroboros on Aug 27, 2023 6:31:12 GMT -5
Interesting fact, aside of intermarriage between members of other Apachean groups and Navajos, in XVII and XVIII Apaches mostly intermarried with Cheyennes according to:
David L. Carmichael and Claire R. Farrer, 'We Do Not Forget; We Remember Mescalero Apache Origins and Migration as Reflected in Place Names', p. 190.
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 16, 2023 4:41:07 GMT -5
Interestingly, when Lipan Apaches attacked Mexicans or Americans their used some stratagems to deceive their pursuers and make them believe some other ethnic group actually carried the attack. One of such stratagems included leaving Comanche arrows in the place of the attack. As Andrée F. Sjoberg, Lipan Apache Culture in Historical Perspective, p. 95 writes: Sjoberg paper is free for download from JSTOR: www.jstor.org/stable/3628495?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contentsSuch a stratagem was possibly also used against the Lipan Apaches:
Quoted from: William Edward Dunn, 'Apache Relations in Texas, 1718-1750', in: The Quarterly of the Texas State Historical Association, Vol. 14, No. 3 (Jan., 1911), pp. 198-275, at pp. 216-217 footnote 5
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 16, 2023 4:29:42 GMT -5
There is an account by the Spanish officer Captain Nicolas Flores on the Lipan horsemen, what is most interesting that these warriors used "saddles with iron stirrups"
William Edward Dunn, 'Apache Relations in Texas, 1718-1750', in: The Quarterly of the Texas State Historical Association, Vol. 14, No. 3 (Jan., 1911), pp. 198-275, at p. 222: You can download this paper from jstor: www.jstor.org/stable/30243013
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 9, 2023 9:54:13 GMT -5
The subject of the thread should be: "Why did the Comanches, faced with numerical superiorior force, decide to fight a battle?"
It is a subject which interest me much. There are some examples in Comanche history that warriors of this people facing numerical superior force of an enemy decide to fight a battle instead of retreat. It seems quite irrational since such a decision mostly will end up with certain defeat.
One example is Bajo-el-Sol's defeat against the Espejo Apaches as described by Julius Froebel, Seven Years' Travel In Central America, Northern Mexico, And The Far West Of The United States, pp. 352-353:
Although the number of the Espejos is not given by the author, another version states that Bajo-el-Sol and his comrade "ran into a band of about thirty Mescalero Apaches".
Another example is the defeat of the of war-party in 1763, when a war-party of twenty-three Comanches, twenty-one men and two women, attacked a Lipan rancheria containing three hundred warriors in present southeastern New Mexico. The Comanches were armed with six guns, eight swords, four lances, and bows and arrows. The Lipan-Apaches killed all the Comanches except one woman, whom they roasted and ate. The Lipans suffered one killed and several wounded (1).
One explanation that I found about this seemingly irrational decision to fight against a superior force is given by Charles Stogner, "Relations between Comanches and Lipans from white contact to early nineteenth century", p. 50:
I hope @ esimotso , the best living expert on the ethnohistory of the Comanches, will present his view on this interesting issue.
1) I have given the numbers presented by Stogner, "Relations between Comanches and Lipans...", p. 50.
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 9, 2023 3:20:50 GMT -5
There is another bio of Buffalo Hump in the book 'History of American Indians: Exploring Diverse Roots', pp. 98-99
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 8, 2023 15:16:29 GMT -5
"Relations between Comanches and Lipans from white contact to early nineteenth century" by Charles Stogner
This is an interesting PhD. Thesis on the relationship between Comanches and Lipan Apaches.
The abstract:
Abstract When he first encountered Native Americans in 1492, Christopher Columbus, thinking he was in India, called the people Indians.' His "Indians" have been the subjects of hundreds of books and thousands of professional articles. Most of the writing about American Indians, however, has to do vsdth their relationship with the European invaders, comparatively less of it has been aimed at the relationship of the various Indian groups with one another. Reasons for the omission are varied, but a primary explanation lies in the dearth of material from the Indian participants. Recent scholarship has begun to focus on the association of the Indian groups with one another. Thomas W. Kavanagh's Comanche Political History: An Ethnohistorical Perspective, 1706-1975 was a recent study of Comanche diplomacy. It covered relations within the various Comanche divisions, with other Indian groups, and with the European invaders. Other works in this area include Frank Secoy's Changing Military Patterns on the Great Plains, John Ewers's The Horse in Blackfoot Indian Culture, and Symmes Oliver's "Social Organization of the Plains Indians" in University of California Publications in American Archeology and Ethnology.
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 7, 2023 9:38:19 GMT -5
I found one ethnographic evidence of the Comanche hate of the Apaches: Quoted from: Comanche Ethnography: Field Notes of E. Adamson Hoebel, Waldo R. Wedel, Gustav G. Carlson, and Robert H. Lowie, compiled and edited by Thomas W. Kavanagh, Lincoln-London 2008, p. 455
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 7, 2023 4:50:21 GMT -5
Many thanks, Tom! Are you working on a new book on the history of the Comanches?
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 6, 2023 11:41:53 GMT -5
There is no comtemporary evidence that Buffalo Hump led the Linnville raid. Welcome back, Tom!
I have found, if the editor is not wrong, that the only evidence that Buffalo Hump led the Linville raid are the 'Recollections of Early Texas: Memoirs of John Holland Jenkins' completed by Jenkins in 1884
BTW, is there any evidence closer to the events which relates which Comanche chief led the raid?
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 15, 2023 6:55:23 GMT -5
The most daring exploit of Buffalo Hump was the raid on Linnville and Victoria of 1840. After the Council House Fight where many important Penateka chiefs and warriors were killed, Buffalo Hump became the main leader of the "Honey-eaters" band of the Comanche and planed an retaliatory attack on the Texans to take vengeance for the killed chiefs. The raid is able described by Craig H. Roell in the "Handbook of Texas", online version is here: www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/linnville-raid-of-1840
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