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Post by jeroen on Jul 7, 2012 16:26:22 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on Jul 7, 2012 16:22:35 GMT -5
Does anbody know the names, and some background info if possible, of the three men sitting with Geronimo in the well known photograph of him at the wheel of a car (locomobile)? I have Edward St. Clair, a Ponca (the one with the bonnet)... The Heard museum gives the others as Dull Knife (Cheyenne, but obviously not the famous leader who died in 1883) and Yellow Horse (a Blackfoot)... I do not know their source though...
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Lozan
Jul 4, 2012 6:46:31 GMT -5
Post by jeroen on Jul 4, 2012 6:46:31 GMT -5
Thank you pullingup and Mithlo for your comments... It is not easy to portray someone with so little info to go on... So I read about everything that is known about Lozen and you try to form a picture of her in your mind... Surely she would conform to standard cultural customs and habits, but she would also still be an individual with her own particulars.... This certainly goes for Lozen who held an unusual position. As far as I can judge, she followed her own path in life and made her own decisions... With this in mind I wanted to portray her as a highly respected woman warrior (weapons, composition with her in center and front), and I added the headband which, I know was not common for women, but would be convenient and sensible when riding and fighting like other warriors. The dress is long as was common for women, I just lifted it a little bit to give her appearance a bit "movement"; this group has been riding fast and now take a little break to check for pursuing army patrols... The shirt I agree is a bit to "sexy", but this was done to stress Lozen's femininity ( she is described as a beautiful looking woman) which is an interesting contrast to her warrior status. (Also, it was one of the directions of the couple that commissioned this painting to show Lozen as a real woman, not some sort of manlike woman). So I took a little artistic liberty there. All in all, I hope you will see it as an honest an respectful rendering of Lozen... for that was/is my intention.
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Post by jeroen on Jun 30, 2012 1:55:04 GMT -5
I think you are right about Red Shirt, and I have the photo of the three young men also as Arapaho. The third one (Indian man) I have only Northern Shoshone man... The last picture, the close up, Tall Mandan perhaps?
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Post by jeroen on Jun 23, 2012 6:43:47 GMT -5
This is a great analysis ... Never heard or read about Ponce's story in this way before... Edwin Sweeney in his book From Cochise to Geronimo however clearly states that Ponce (a son of the elder Ponce who died in the late 1850's), the one guiding Howard and Jeffords to Cochise in 1872, died in the late 1870's in the Victorio War... Daklugie, on the other hand, said Ponce was still living in the 1880's and claims that Ponce became his father's 'segundo'... This statement, rejected by Sweeney, could be in line with Mithlo's post above. But, I have also read that Ponce was a heavy set man (the man with the cap is not) and none of the 'known' sources mentions Ponce... I usually am on your side Mitho, but, in this case, you have not fully convinced me yet the man with the cap is "most likely" Ponce... By the way, Chin-chi was shot and killed by American ranchers on March 8th, 1886. His body was mutilated and then burned... His death was soon avenged by the Chiricahuas. Note that this was just a few weeks before the Chiricahuas met with Crook in Canyon de los Embudos...
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Post by jeroen on Jun 23, 2012 6:24:42 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this much better photo... If the old lady is indeed Ih Tedda's mother, than that would make her Geronimo's mother-in-law, rather than one of his wives...
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Post by jeroen on Jun 22, 2012 0:53:07 GMT -5
Image of a young woman identified as Geronimo's granddaughter: and one of his wives: Hard to tell who she is...
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Lozan
Jun 22, 2012 0:41:50 GMT -5
Post by jeroen on Jun 22, 2012 0:41:50 GMT -5
Hello Burta, There is very info if you want to portray Lozan (Lozen).... I did an oil painting of her several years ago and faced pretty much the same dilemmas. Kaywaykla stated that she could shoot about as well as any man, so a gun would not be out of character I guess... She also wore her hair long (so, as a warrior woman she would also have a headband or bandana) and most likely a skirt... Because there is so little fact to go on, I called the painting "The legendary Lozen"... I would like to see the completed sculpture...
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Post by jeroen on May 19, 2012 12:33:29 GMT -5
Perhaps one of his half-sisters?
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Post by jeroen on May 19, 2012 6:36:12 GMT -5
Finally!!! I agree with you Mithlo! I think it was assumed that Tonse and Dohnsay were one and the same only because of the name similarity! But she does not look like Geronimo at all, she does look a bit like Naiche and Dorothy though... so I think that part of the identification is correct. Any thoughts on in what way she was related to Naiche?
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Post by jeroen on May 5, 2012 14:13:22 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on May 5, 2012 14:11:06 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on May 5, 2012 14:09:13 GMT -5
Xframe, I think you are right... he does look like Yanozha...
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Post by jeroen on May 5, 2012 14:07:56 GMT -5
Martine, early 1900's...
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Post by jeroen on Apr 22, 2012 13:23:21 GMT -5
My opinion: 1 Becalthay 2Lensee 3Chihuahua or Ulzana 5 Kaatenay 6Cathlay 12 Mangas (?) I agree with Naiches that no. 3 is not Bishtoyeh...
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