peter
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Post by peter on Dec 14, 2023 10:31:18 GMT -5
Dietmar, thank you for sharing the composite photos of David Bull Bear. I take notice that the first photo on the left, which I identified as Sam Little Bull, Jr., is quite remarkably identical to the fourth photo you correctly identify as David Bull Bear of the Buffalo Bill's Wild West. The logical conclusion seems to be that my identification is wrong. Please note that the name of Sam Little Bull associated with the photo on the left, originally appeared in the article on Oglala breastplates published in the mid-1970s by Charles Hanson, Jr., of the Museum of the Fur Trade. Years later I personally visited the MFT in Chadron, Nebraska, and asked to see the original image published by Hanson. I was told that the original image had been "lost" , possibly even stolen. While I do not doubt your identification, for the sake of historical accuracy, I will write to James Hanson, current MFT historian for clarification. As you well know, misidentification of subjects in American Indian photographs abound both in print and on the web. The more we can do to rectify the problem, the better for future generations of historians and specifically for anyone interested in the American Indians. Thanks again.
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peter
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Post by peter on Dec 13, 2023 11:57:57 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing, Peter! Very interesting photo, indeed. However, I don´t think it shows Sam Little Bull. Personally I believe this is an early photo of David Bull Bear, who was with Buffalo Bill Cody on several tours. Hello Dietmar, Long time don't hear. Hope all is well. Is there any other photo of David Bull Bear that you are aware of? I would like to see one to compare it with the photo I posted. Our sources indicate that this rare portrait of young Sam Little Bull was originally published in an article by Charles Hanson junior who was the director of the Museum Of The fur Trade in Chadron, precisely on Oglala hair-pipe breastplates. Thank you
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peter
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Post by peter on Dec 12, 2023 16:18:05 GMT -5
I've been researching a family member of mine named Samuel Little Bull. As he was the only Little Bull related to the family I didn't catch on to the fact that he was potentially the son of "Chief Little Bull" (I put it in quotes because I haven't found anything outside of the Cody show signifying him as Chief). ' Picture of Little Bull codyarchive.org/images/view/cabinet_cards/wfc.img.cc.p.6.37After spending hours combing through census records and the Mike Myers site, I now believe based on the evidence that Little Bull had at least one son (Samuel, but potentially Thomas as well) with my great aunt Pretty Woman. Pretty Woman was not Arapaho to the best of my knowledge and it does seem like Pretty Woman either died young or simply left her family behind to be raised by her mother Good Ring. Does anyone have more information on Little Bull? It was very hard to find anything outside of the information on the Cody site. I did find some information that Red Shirt (Oglala) and Little Bull were friends and I found one other picture with the two of them. Here are the census records I found corroborating the family. You'll see that Little Bull is actually on the census record with Samuel and Thomas. Good Ring and Rattling (Rattling Woman who is Good Ring's daughter) are also on the census records. Fannie was married to Thomas (hence the little bull name) but is then seen living with Samuel in the later years after (presumably) Thomas dies. www.fold3.com/image/216120367 - Rosebud www.fold3.com/image/212192657 - Pine Ridge www.fold3.com/image/216141070 - Pine Ridge (Robert Little Dog is married to Ruth, Rattling Woman's Daughter) www.fold3.com/image/216107095 - Pine Ridge (I believe Clara Little Bull here married Little Bull after Pretty Woman. I am not sure if the Red Woman referred to in other census records is Clara or Pretty Woman) www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/1059/images/M595_366-0371?pId=6175773This a picture of Sam Little Bull born on 1861. The original picture was at the Museum of Fur Trade in Chadron Nebraska and it was stolen and we don't know the whereabout. Hope it will help.
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peter
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Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Sept 18, 2023 11:50:40 GMT -5
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peter
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Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Sept 18, 2023 11:45:14 GMT -5
This alternative shot of Sitting Bull`s family was either taken or published by A. T. Sherwood of Mandan, now North Dakota. As Dakota Territory was split in 1889, this photographed obviously was published at least before 1890: So, were the photos of Sitting Bull and Spotted Horn Bull taken in Mandan?
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peter
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Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Mar 29, 2023 8:57:01 GMT -5
Grahamew, name is right, but he is a Pawnee
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peter
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Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Feb 26, 2019 8:35:16 GMT -5
dT The famous photo, with Geronimo, his son and two warriors, shows Geronimo carrying a Trapdoor 1879 Springfield Rifle. The other warriors are armed with late model Winchesters and a Trapdoor Springfield carbine. Geronimo stuck with the full size single shot long barrel. An expert marksman, Geronimo wielded this robust, accurate weapon with devastating effect in firefights, specially in the Sonora Canyon on June 17th. Unfortunately I can't help about the whereabouts of his rifle.
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peter
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Post by peter on Feb 25, 2019 15:29:59 GMT -5
Great point Ted. The photo was taken at San Carlos Reservation in 1884 by Frank Randall. The 1887 date is incorrect. On October 25, 1886 a train arrived at Pensacola Florida. Onboard there was Geronimo, Naiche and 14 more Apache men and their family. Under guard they were separated from their wives and children and forced onto a steamer across Pensacola bay to Fort Pickens. Their relatives reamined on the train and were shipped to Fort Marion in St. Augustine. On April 27, 1887, finally the families were reunited. The Apaches at Fort Pickens were removed on May 12, 1888 to Mount Vernon Barracks north of Mobile, Alabama. In 1887 Geronimo was at Fort Pickens and it was impossible that he took that photo there since with the same back round there were pictures taken of Chatto, Mangas Colorado junior, Chihuahua and others. All these warriors were not at Penscacola with Geronimo and Naiche in 1887. It is interesting that both photographs of Chatto 1884 and Geronimo 1887 not only show use of the same props (foliage) by photographer but use—without a doubt—the same gun! Gun shown, in my opinion, is a sporterized .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield rifle. Western photographers often used the same props over and over. Many, but not all, Western photographs often show dudes all decked out in new store-bought gun rigs with empty cartridge belts, new chaps, boots, clothing—often in real tough poses. The Springfield rifle shown in the photos for sure did not belong to Chatto or Geronimo The photos were both taken by A. Frank Randall at San Carlos in 1884. There is also a similar photo of Mangas Coloradas, but with a different gun, obviously taken at the same time. I doubt if the scarf is a prop, as Geronimo wears scarves in other photos, but it certainly could be. I agree that it is a prop rifle, perhaps owned by Randall. Geronimo is, of course, photographed with his own Springfield in the famous surrender photos. While there is no way to know for sure who owned the rifle, my guess is that it was probably a studio gun. This was a common practice and can be seen in photos from other frontier photographers to spice up their images. Therefore the 1887 date, in my opinion it is incorrect. Take care
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peter
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Post by peter on Jan 15, 2019 10:58:30 GMT -5
Dietmar, this is the original photo we own. Nothing in the back of the photograph to show who was the photographer.
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peter
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Post by peter on Nov 17, 2018 20:12:46 GMT -5
Just kidding...just wanted to see how good you are LOL. We own the original and clearly says in the front it is Hamilton. If you wish I can post the original for you.
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peter
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Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Nov 17, 2018 16:38:43 GMT -5
Is this photo of Little Big Man supposed to be a Huffman/s photo?
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peter
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Post by peter on Nov 17, 2018 16:37:33 GMT -5
Huffman was in the right place at the right time to record images of some of the northern Plains people during the twilight of the buffalo-hunting days, as Lakota and Cheyenne surrrendered and, in some cases, took up the offer of becoming scouts for the army. The following were, to the best of my knowledge, all taken between 1878 and 1881. Without wishing to pretend that this was exactly how these men and women were dressed as they entered his studio, within a few years, coats, hats and trousers would become de rigueur for the everyday wear of many of these Indians. Please feel free to add more images - or better versions of any that I've posted. Spotted Eagle, Sans Arc High Bear, Miniconjou or Oglala Tall Bear Hump and his warriors, Miniconjou Spotted Eagle, Sans Arc Spotted Bear, Hunkpapa (Cheyenne?) women Hump and his wives, Miniconjou Hump and his head warriors Scorched Lightning (Spotted Eagle's son?), Sans Arc Rain in the Face, Hunkpapa Man on the Hill and his wife, Lakota Lakota women (though I've seen them identified as Crow) Oglala village, Tongue River Spotted Elk, Oglala(?) Young Lakota Spotted Eagle's village Yanktonai village (?) Sans Arc hunter and wife Scorched Lightning/Young Spotted Eagle, Sans Arc Lakota scouts Lakota mother and child; Spotted Elk Cheyenne men Lakota children or possibly Two Moon's children, Cheyenne Red Armed Panther, Cheyenne White Bull, Cheyenne Wolf Voice, Cheyenne/Gros Ventre Northern Cheyenne girl Pretty Nose, Cheyenne Pretty Eyes, Cheyenne White Hawk, Cheyenne White Bull, Cheyenne Wolf's Voice, Cheyenne/Gros Ventre Two Moon, Cheyenne (credited to Morrow, although the backdrop is the same as in the photo of Wolf Voice, above) Two Moon's daughters, Cheyenne Running Antelope, Cheyenne Sits Down Spotted, Crow Crow scout Little Crow and brother Crow Lieutenant Bladwin and Cheyennes making a trail around Lionite Bluff Little Big Man, Oglala
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peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Nov 17, 2018 16:35:32 GMT -5
Huffman was in the right place at the right time to record images of some of the northern Plains people during the twilight of the buffalo-hunting days, as Lakota and Cheyenne surrrendered and, in some cases, took up the offer of becoming scouts for the army. The following were, to the best of my knowledge, all taken between 1878 and 1881. Without wishing to pretend that this was exactly how these men and women were dressed as they entered his studio, within a few years, coats, hats and trousers would become de rigueur for the everyday wear of many of these Indians. Please feel free to add more images - or better versions of any that I've posted. Spotted Eagle, Sans Arc High Bear, Miniconjou or Oglala Tall Bear Hump and his warriors, Miniconjou Spotted Eagle, Sans Arc Spotted Bear, Hunkpapa (Cheyenne?) women Hump and his wives, Miniconjou Hump and his head warriors Scorched Lightning (Spotted Eagle's son?), Sans Arc Rain in the Face, Hunkpapa Man on the Hill and his wife, Lakota Lakota women (though I've seen them identified as Crow) Oglala village, Tongue River Spotted Elk, Oglala(?) Young Lakota Spotted Eagle's village Yanktonai village (?) Sans Arc hunter and wife Scorched Lightning/Young Spotted Eagle, Sans Arc Lakota scouts Lakota mother and child; Spotted Elk Cheyenne men Lakota children or possibly Two Moon's children, Cheyenne Red Armed Panther, Cheyenne White Bull, Cheyenne Wolf Voice, Cheyenne/Gros Ventre Northern Cheyenne girl Pretty Nose, Cheyenne Pretty Eyes, Cheyenne White Hawk, Cheyenne White Bull, Cheyenne Wolf's Voice, Cheyenne/Gros Ventre Two Moon, Cheyenne (credited to Morrow, although the backdrop is the same as in the photo of Wolf Voice, above) Two Moon's daughters, Cheyenne Running Antelope, Cheyenne Sits Down Spotted, Crow Crow scout Little Crow and brother Crow Lieutenant Bladwin and Cheyennes making a trail around Lionite Bluff Little Big Man, Oglala
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peter
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Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Aug 6, 2018 2:01:51 GMT -5
Dietmar thank you for posting it
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peter
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Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Jun 4, 2018 12:24:29 GMT -5
Thank you Grahamew. I'm amazed at the length of the breastplates already that long back then. Thanks again
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