Not a photo of Crazy Horse - but who is it?

[jenny]

This photo was on the front of Dept. of Interior Little Bighorn Staff Ride brochure. Admittedly it was created by a contractor who was mostly clueless about CH, but....who is this? Thanks!

Attachments:

[wambli ahitunwan]

I'd like to have a verified ID of this man, too, as this photo is repeatedly posted on 'native' Facebook pages and other online 'native' sites as a photo of Crazy Horse.

[grahamew]

Hi

I have seen him identified as Chak-uk-T-Kee, Arikara

[peter]

Grahamew, name is right, but he is a Pawnee

[rodthomas]

Mar 29, 2023 8:57:01 GMT -5 peter said:

Grahamew, name is right, but he is a Pawnee

Crazy Horse Photographs Greasy Grass Dixon.pdf (5.96 MB)

Attached article from the Greasy Grass magazine in 1998 by well-known historian Ephriam Dixon. Tells details of this one and several others. Hope all is well.

[jenny]

Thanks, Rod. This is the best article I've seen yet on the explanations of Crazy Horse photos/images.

J

[rodthomas]

No problem...Ephriam and I have been great friends for a long, long time. Despite all the "hopes and wishes" and smudges and whatever, there is no validated photograph of Crazy Horse. There is a two page spread sheet handout at the Crazy Horse monument in South Dakota that has several more claimants and the actuality of each for sale in the gift shop. In short...there is actuality and then there is facebook and Instagram and a whole passel of "wannabe's" that confound the history. The "real" stuff is here.

All best and stay well!

[jenny]

Doesn't keep us artists from wanting to paint him, though. As well as a bunch of other guys!

J

[rodthomas]

It does not...and that is why we keep looking for that elusive image...which in all likehood, does not exist. Harken however to Amerlia Earhardt...it is just a matter of time is it not? All best...

[jenny]

OK, on another topic (and I'm certain there's a thread on this board but I'll let you tell me that haha) what about all this business regarding Northern Cheyenne Buffalo Calf Road woman? I made a comment on a FB page that no one knows who killed Custer, and even the Indians who fought Custer's column said they didn't know who they were fighting what with the recent Crook fight, dust, smoke, etc. I was called, in short, a white supremacist for suggesting BRC didn't kill ol' GAC. Convince me.

Jenny

[Californian]

hi Jenny, most likely it will never be known who killed Custer. Over the decades several candidates were put forth, but really none of them convincing. Although a number of the Native Americans had encountered Custer previously, but really very few in a more direct way. Almost certainly Rain-in-the-Face would have met Custer while he was incarcerated in December 1874/Jan-Feb 1875 at Fort Abraham Lincoln. However reportedly during the 1876 campaign Custer wore his hair short so likely would not have been recognized, or it would have been very difficult to say the least. The author Stanley Vestal (a.k.a. Walter Stanley Campbell) claimed that it was White Bull, a nephew of Sitting Bull, that had killed Custer. Indeed Vestal had interviewed White Bull extensively and published a biography on him in 1934 "Warpath: The True Story of the Fighting Sioux Told in a Biography of Chief White Bull", but therein is no mention that it was him that killed Custer. Vestal only came out with that in, I believe 1957 or 1958, several years after White Bull's death. But then, is it really that important to know who dispatched Custer ? In the heat of the battle, the confusion, the dust etc. it could have been literally anyone, possibly even one of the women ? Several dozen combatants discharged their weapons in the direction of the soldiers and then it was over. Seemingly Custer wasn't even recognized right away. There are so many stories circulating about this and even though the battle of the LBH dates back nearly 150 years new theories pop up all the time. 

 

[Gary]

I think that most Cheyennes who are knowledgeable on the subject discount the claim that Buffalo Calf Road Woman killed Custer. I don't think that there's any evidence that she fought at the LBH, let alone killed Custer.

[jenny]

Jul 5, 2023 21:40:12 GMT -5 Californian said:

hi Jenny, most likely it will never be known who killed Custer. Over the decades several candidates were put forth, but really none of them convincing. Although a number of the Native Americans had encountered Custer previously, but really very few in a more direct way. Almost certainly Rain-in-the-Face would have met Custer while he was incarcerated in December 1874/Jan-Feb 1875 at Fort Abraham Lincoln. However reportedly during the 1876 campaign Custer wore his hair short so likely would not have been recognized, or it would have been very difficult to say the least. The author Stanley Vestal (a.k.a. Walter Stanley Campbell) claimed that it was White Bull, a nephew of Sitting Bull, that had killed Custer. Indeed Vestal had interviewed White Bull extensively and published a biography on him in 1934 "Warpath: The True Story of the Fighting Sioux Told in a Biography of Chief White Bull", but therein is no mention that it was him that killed Custer. Vestal only came out with that in, I believe 1957 or 1958, several years after White Bull's death. But then, is it really that important to know who dispatched Custer ? In the heat of the battle, the confusion, the dust etc. it could have been literally anyone, possibly even one of the women ? Several dozen combatants discharged their weapons in the direction of the soldiers and then it was over. Seemingly Custer wasn't even recognized right away. There are so many stories circulating about this and even though the battle of the LBH dates back nearly 150 years new theories pop up all the time. 

 

I agree that it's a fool's errand trying to figure out who killed Custer, I don't really care but everybody has a theory and as you know people get downright rabid about it. Didn't White Bull concede that the guy he killed didn't have a mustache or something like that? Blew that confession out of the water. And thanks for clearing up Vestal's real name. 

Jenny

[jenny]

Jul 6, 2023 14:24:31 GMT -5 Gary said:

I think that most Cheyennes who are knowledgeable on the subject discount the claim that Buffalo Calf Road Woman killed Custer. I don't think that there's any evidence that she fought at the LBH, let alone killed Custer.

I agree. As I'm always saying to people, "whatever you want to believe...."