|
|
Post by grahamew on Apr 7, 2019 3:21:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by wayanke on Apr 7, 2019 13:25:33 GMT -5
Thank you, I know some of them, but I mean the whole photo, that was not cut... Like this, but without retouch. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Apr 7, 2019 14:20:33 GMT -5
Unfortunately, they were all I could find.
|
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Apr 8, 2019 7:57:34 GMT -5
Hello wayanke, I see your photo for the first time. I also only know the Cross photos that gramew posted. Your photo seems to be some kind of piracy. Sitting Bull's hair, braids and other parts of the photo seem to have been heavily retouched or added (the feathers). IMHO this photograh is no original. Toksha Gegor
|
|
|
|
Post by wayanke on Apr 9, 2019 15:12:06 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, I think the original is this photo. But it will be good to find a better image. In the last work of Markus Lindner, as I understand, it is said that it is from Paul Harbaugh Collection, Englewood, CO. But what is it Paul Harbaugh Collection? Some private collection of photoes?
Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Jul 21, 2019 3:00:43 GMT -5
Californian, I agree. Disrespectful. And it seems he doesn't know the history before Ft. Randall.
|
|
natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
|
Post by natethegreat on Jul 26, 2019 3:57:58 GMT -5
IF you cant handle a little lighthearted humour then you have issues. I did not sit around and make some long post about his personal life or his family. I simply made one comment about his weight. You need to lighten up. Your concern for the seriousness of what I said seems "Infantile". Out of respect for this board I will not continue this argument anymore. Other people have stated they see no harm done, yet you act like I said something about his family. You need to learn to laugh a little. You know sitting around and making light hearted comments about people is a form of bonding and increases morale.
Big difference between what I said and intentionally trying to insult somebody. Why dont you dust off your history books and go outside for a little social activity. Thats an insult. Now your mad.
|
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Oct 25, 2019 21:19:46 GMT -5
interesting ... always find something new among the Stanley Vestal papers - this one is a letter he wrote to Joe Balmer of Zurich, Switzerland (a legendary self taught expert on anything about the Plains Indians) Particularly of interest is Vestal's comment about a photograph reproduced in LIFE MAGAZINE some years prior to 1957 - showing Custer standing on a veranda and somewhere behind him a Lakota man that greatly resembled Sitting Bull ... anyone familiar with this ? It would take some considerable researching to pinpoint this article and image.  Stanley Vestal letter to Joe Balmer 1957.pdf (94.53 KB) |
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Oct 26, 2019 3:40:08 GMT -5
Fairly sure it's the photo of Long Soldier (or whoever) at Ft Abraham Lincoln that we've been discussing elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Oct 26, 2019 14:59:23 GMT -5
thanks Grahame, gotta search for that on the board. I wonder why Stanley Vestal would think it was Sitting Bull, going from the assumption that at the time he would be probably the most qualified expert.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Oct 27, 2019 17:21:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 30, 2019 16:44:00 GMT -5
just purchased - stereoview image by W.R. Cross dated 1882 - titled "Sitting Bull's camp, sectional view" - with a hooded figure which is presumably Sitting Bull (referring also to a vaguely similar image titled by Bailey, Dix & Mead "stealing the trade" also presumably depicting Sitting Bull with the blanket drawn over his head). The female standing next to him I presume to be Her Many Horses, his daughter, but of course this would be up to debate. Any comments and expert opinions would be welcome. The scan below is with enhanced contrasts for better viewing, for the original is quite faded as is the case with most images by W. R. Cross.  |
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Dec 1, 2019 9:09:20 GMT -5
Congratulation Californian! Your photo was probably taken immediately before or after the better known photo "Stealing the trade". But I do not think your photo shows Sitting Bull. The man in your photo is wrapped in a gray blanket. I have a copy of the photo "Stealing the Trade," which shows the wrapped Sitting Bull. His blanket is black.  |
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Dec 1, 2019 15:50:12 GMT -5
hank you Gregor, always good to hear from you. Point well taken. The two images were by different photographers, the first one by W. R. Cross and the second one with the "stealing the trade" caption by Bailey, Dix and Mead. Granted, I believe that both were taken near the same time, as the setting looks almost identical - probably early winter, for lack of foliage on the trees and shrubs. After closer examination of both images, particularly the surroundings and more precisely the tree on the top left as reference point, the tree appears to be the same - granted my image is quite faded and does not have the crispness of the Bailey, Dix and Mead image, but I am pretty certain of it. On the comment about the blanket, I would go from the premise that Sitting Bull had more than one blanket at disposal, particularly having a sizable household in his lodge with his two wives, his mother, two older daughters and of course the smaller children. The photographers would naturally gravitate to him, being the "star" by all accounts and thus anything associated to him would sell well. That's just my personal opinion and of course always appreciate peer review and opinions. Also, W. R. Cross and Bailey, Dix and Mead being competitors I would doubt that both were on site precisely at the same time, but possibly several days apart. This brings me to another subject, we know for sure that W. R. Cross was a photographer, but Baily, Dix and Mead seem to have been more publishers than actual photographers - for very little is known about them. Perhaps both photos were by Cross, whereas he might have sold one of the views to the other entity ? Just for argument's sake, please compare both images below - first one is the W. R. Cross photo (more faded) and the sharper one is by Bailey, Dix and Mead.   |
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Dec 1, 2019 17:09:17 GMT -5
Hi Californian, as far as I know was Cross the photographer and Bailey, Dix and Mead only marketed a 24 piece series of Cross photographs. Please see also here: chronicles.dickinson.edu/studentwork/indian/8_marketing.htmThese Fort Randall pics are the only photographs which were sold by Bailey, Dix and Mead. I hope my memory serves me well, have to look up my archive. Greetings from Germany, gregor |
|
