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Post by Nate on Oct 20, 2018 10:36:55 GMT -5
I am talking about the entire Apache tribe. There were many Apache bands that fought with U.S. troops and Mexicans. Some notables include:
Chief Mahco's band (1780)
Mangas Coloradas, Cuchillo Negro's band (1810)
Juh's band of Nednhis (1870)
Victorio's band (1880)
Geronimos band (1880)
And for some other fun debate: Who were the most legendary Apache fighting force?
My answer: The Chihenne band led by Victorio!
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Post by jasper4 on Jan 7, 2019 13:57:15 GMT -5
I am talking about the entire Apache tribe. There were many Apache bands that fought with U.S. troops and Mexicans. Some notables include: Chief Mahco's band (1780) Mangas Coloradas, Cuchillo Negro's band (1810) Juh's band of Nednhis (1870) Victorio's band (1880) Geronimos band (1880) And for some other fun debate: Who were the most legendary Apache fighting force? My answer: The Chihenne band led by Victorio! you miss Juan Jose or Cochise yet the common point is all are chiricahua |
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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 9, 2019 6:43:39 GMT -5
Hi and Happy New Year everyone,
Remember also Pisago Cabezon during 1830'; Lacéres, Juh's father during 1840', Miguel Narbona, wwhen Cochise was the secundo, during 1840's; Cochise, Francisco (white mountain Apache maybe mexican blood) during 1860'.
you can read the 3 Sweeney Books (Cochise, Mangas Coloradas and the chiricahuas 1876-1886) you will find a lot of names of band chiefs.
The more efficiency with more strengh (all the 4 bands can follow him)was Mangas Coloradas to me and the more strategic to eliminate mexicans near the border was Miguel Narbona in 1848 with his Chokonen.
But my hero was Cochise who was never caught during his eleven years (1861-1872) fighting against american and mexicans and had his reservation where he died in peace in 1874
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Post by owotanla on Jan 12, 2019 10:38:03 GMT -5
I am talking about the entire Apache tribe. There were many Apache bands that fought with U.S. troops and Mexicans. Some notables include: Chief Mahco's band (1780) Mangas Coloradas, Cuchillo Negro's band (1810) Juh's band of Nednhis (1870) Victorio's band (1880) Geronimos band (1880) And for some other fun debate: Who were the most legendary Apache fighting force? My answer: The Chihenne band led by Victorio! Victorio was one of the greatest of all but for some reason doesnt seem to get as much credit as deserved |
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natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Jan 15, 2019 11:00:02 GMT -5
I am talking about the entire Apache tribe. There were many Apache bands that fought with U.S. troops and Mexicans. Some notables include: Chief Mahco's band (1780) Mangas Coloradas, Cuchillo Negro's band (1810) Juh's band of Nednhis (1870) Victorio's band (1880) Geronimos band (1880) And for some other fun debate: Who were the most legendary Apache fighting force? My answer: The Chihenne band led by Victorio! you miss Juan Jose or Cochise yet the common point is all are chiricahua Oh! How could I forget the great Chief Cochise. His war lasted ten years after the Bascom Affair "Cut The Tent". During the 1960's Cochise was arguably the most influential Chiricahua leader, and without a doubt after the murder of Mangas Coloradas. I am not familiar with Juan Jose, Pisago Cabezon, or Miguel Narbona. |
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natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Jan 15, 2019 11:01:08 GMT -5
Hi and Happy New Year everyone, Remember also Pisago Cabezon during 1830'; Lacéres, Juh's father during 1840', Miguel Narbona, wwhen Cochise was the secundo, during 1840's; Cochise, Francisco (white mountain Apache maybe mexican blood) during 1860'. you can read the 3 Sweeney Books (Cochise, Mangas Coloradas and the chiricahuas 1876-1886) you will find a lot of names of band chiefs. The more efficiency with more strengh (all the 4 bands can follow him)was Mangas Coloradas to me and the more strategic to eliminate mexicans near the border was Miguel Narbona in 1848 with his Chokonen. But my hero was Cochise who was never caught during his eleven years (1861-1872) fighting against american and mexicans and had his reservation where he died in peace in 1874 Does Miguel Narbona have any relations with the Navajo leader Narbona? |
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Post by dT on Jan 19, 2019 1:49:19 GMT -5
all of them.
really when you think about it, the Apache didnt have any bad fighters. they just needed better weapons.
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Post by jones on Jan 20, 2019 14:30:21 GMT -5
Here's a link to a brief history of Apache warriors: Cochise, Victorio, Geronimo, Juh, Nana, Naiche, Chalipun, and Eskiminzin. zybtarizona.com/warriors.htm |
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Post by allenc on Jan 20, 2019 15:56:28 GMT -5
what does "fearsome" mean? Is there a standard measure of "fearsomeness"?
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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 22, 2019 9:53:11 GMT -5
Hi and Happy New Year everyone, Remember also Pisago Cabezon during 1830'; Lacéres, Juh's father during 1840', Miguel Narbona, wwhen Cochise was the secundo, during 1840's; Cochise, Francisco (white mountain Apache maybe mexican blood) during 1860'. you can read the 3 Sweeney Books (Cochise, Mangas Coloradas and the chiricahuas 1876-1886) you will find a lot of names of band chiefs. The more efficiency with more strengh (all the 4 bands can follow him)was Mangas Coloradas to me and the more strategic to eliminate mexicans near the border was Miguel Narbona in 1848 with his Chokonen. But my hero was Cochise who was never caught during his eleven years (1861-1872) fighting against american and mexicans and had his reservation where he died in peace in 1874 Does Miguel Narbona have any relations with the Navajo leader Narbona? No as I know. He was a captured chiricahua at 10 years old (around)by Mexican, grew up in the famous family in Sonora ; The Narbona. H escaped from them at 20 yers old with a great hate of the Mexicans and especially the Narbona's. |
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 22, 2019 13:34:02 GMT -5
As for Miguel Narbona I agree with coeurrouge, Sweeney comments: "Without a doubt, he was the most feared Chokonen leader during the 1840s and early 1850s" (quoted after: E. Sweeney, Cochise: Chiricahua Apache Chief, p. 71).
Sweeney thinks that a series of Chokonen campaigns under the leadership of Miguel Narbona had the goal to drive the Mexicans from northern Sonora.
To the many great Nde leaders mentioned already I would add Juan Gomez the leader of the southern Mescaleros. He was indeed "The Terror of Chihuahua". A nantan that was cunning, feared and very skilled in diplomacy.
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natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Jan 23, 2019 15:43:33 GMT -5
In 1847, to revenge the Galeana massacre, Cuchillo Negro called a council with the Tchihende (Mimbreño), Tsokanende (Chiricahua) and Ndendahe (Mogollon) chiefs. Late in that autumn Mangas Coloradas, Cuchillo Negro and, probably, the Tsokanende leaders Miguel Narbona, Tapilà and Yrigollen went to raid Chihuahua with 200 warriors, occupying Ramos, near Janos, and killing most of the inhabitants. In 1848 Mangas Coloradas and Cuchillo Negro with their Mimbreños, and Miguel Narbona and Yrigollen with their Chiricahuas, attacked Sonora, and on February 18 they burned Chinapa, killing or capturing many Mexicans.
It seems like during the tiem of Geronimos late teens and early 20's, these men like Cuchillo Negro, Juan Jose Compas, Miguel Narbona, Delgadito were already established war leaders. Makes me wonder how many of these war leaders were killed in the Janos and Galeana massacres when Geronimo's family was killed.
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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 23, 2019 16:18:23 GMT -5
In 1847, to revenge the Galeana massacre, Cuchillo Negro called a council with the Tchihende (Mimbreño), Tsokanende (Chiricahua) and Ndendahe (Mogollon) chiefs. Late in that autumn Mangas Coloradas, Cuchillo Negro and, probably, the Tsokanende leaders Miguel Narbona, Tapilà and Yrigollen went to raid Chihuahua with 200 warriors, occupying Ramos, near Janos, and killing most of the inhabitants. In 1848 Mangas Coloradas and Cuchillo Negro with their Mimbreños, and Miguel Narbona and Yrigollen with their Chiricahuas, attacked Sonora, and on February 18 they burned Chinapa, killing or capturing many Mexicans. It seems like during the tiem of Geronimos late teens and early 20's, these men like Cuchillo Negro, Juan Jose Compas, Miguel Narbona, Delgadito were already established war leaders. Makes me wonder how many of these war leaders were killed in the Janos and Galeana massacres when Geronimo's family was killed. Juan José Compas murdered by scalps hunters in 1837 near Pinos Altos Yrigollen was killed in the same that Geronimo's first family in march 1851 near JAnos by Carrasco Sonora's soldiers. MIguel Narbona died during the 1856's winter from a natural cause, it seemed. Cochise was designated leader of his local group of Chokonen to replace Miguel. Cuchillo Negro was killed by Bonneville's soldiers in 1857. Delgadito was perhaps killed during the Pinos Altos battle in september 1861. Again read the books of Sweeney you will have a lot of answers of your questions. |
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Post by dT on Feb 10, 2019 23:57:19 GMT -5
No mention of Ulzanna here? He was strong and very skilled.
I dont know anything about Miguel Narbonna. This is the first time that i learned he was the leader of Cochise's band, before Cochise took over. Very interesting. I hope that more people will talk about Miguel.
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natethegreat
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Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Feb 11, 2019 18:05:43 GMT -5
It can be argued that Mangas Coloradas controlled the most territory and influenced the most amount of warriors in Apache history. Followed by Cochise. Those two in my opinion are way ahead of the other Apache Chiefs when it comes to who had the most influence.
I believe that Victorio was the most skilled Apache commander, and Geronimo the most ruthless.
The most fearsome Apache fighting unit in Apache history, in my opinion belongs to Mangas Coloradas. Until the arrival of the California Column in 1861 and the Battle of Apache PAss, Mangas Coloradas was the Lord of Apacheria.
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