peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Oct 21, 2017 12:49:47 GMT -5
Dietmar, I did come across an other stereo views of Hamilton. It was long time ago and was all different from the one I own. I think it was a Hamilton Kodylik catalogue or Hamilton Hoyt catalogue, but I definitely had a copy of it. Do not recall the names and the tribes the views and who were on that list. I was only concern at the moment at the Northwest stereo views. I might still have it among my notes, but it is like searching a needle in the hay-nest, but it definitely there were more stereo views/catalogues of Hamilton.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 23, 2017 15:01:44 GMT -5
Yes, Peter. It seems that none of the "river backdrop" stereographs are listed in the "Northwest" series. It is likely that they were taken later than 1877.
Included in the "Northwest"-list are Hamilton´s portraits of 1870 and 1872 Indian delegates, that we know also with an Hamilton & Hoyt or Kodylek imprint.
All the pictures with an "blanket backdrop" and buffalo fur were taken in 1877.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 24, 2017 5:01:09 GMT -5
This is a catalogue that was printed on the back of stereograph found at Heritage Auctions. It contains the same pictures as the "Northwest" series, but with different numbers.
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Post by grahamew on Oct 24, 2017 13:29:22 GMT -5
Here's a better picture of the 'Sioux Dr.' or 'Sitting Soldier' or whoever. Aside from the other photo of this man (I believe he is the man in the army jacket Dietmar posted on the first page of this thread), the only other males I've seen with this backdrop are Flat Nose John and the two youths Dietmar posted on the first page). Flat Nose John:
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 24, 2017 17:12:45 GMT -5
Here´s another one of the "river backdrop" series, unfortunately unidentified:
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 26, 2017 5:41:26 GMT -5
Here we got the part of Hamilton´s 'Stereoscopic Views of the Northwest' catalogue that lists "Sioux Indians" (not all of them are indeed Lakota). Note that the full catalogue starts with Spotted Tail as No. 1:
1. Spotted Tail, Sioux Chief.
...
SIOUX INDIANS 85. Rushing Bear, Sioux Chief. 86. Two Bears and Running Antelope. 87. Sioux Medicine Man. 88. Sioux Squaw. 89. Sioux Warrior. 90. Chief and Daughters. 91. Red Dog’s Daughter. 92. Sioux Chiefs at Standing Rock. 93. Bear’s Rib and Long Fox. 94. Starving Warrior. 95. Brule Sioux Chief. 96. Iron Horse. 97. Group of Sioux Chiefs. 98. Medicine Bear, Sioux Chief. 99. The Grass, Sioux. 100. Mrs. Galpin and Sioux Chiefs. 101. Black Hawk, Sioux Chief. 102. Sioux War Dance. 103. Spotted Tail’s Squaw, No. 4. 104. Crazy Horse. 105. Arrapahoe Warrior. 106. White Thunder, Sioux Chief. 107. Surrender of Lame Deer’s Band. 108. Sioux Belles. 109. Dancing Party. 110. Scalping Scene. 111. Group of War Dancers at Spotted Tail. 112. Black Elk, Sioux Chief. 113. Red Dog, Sioux Chief. 114. Red Dog’s Daughter. 115. Muggins, Sioux Warrior. 116. Roman Nose and War Pony. 117. Arrapahoe Village. 118. Medicine man at Red Cloud. 119. Red Cloud’s Village. 120. White Goose, Sioux Chief. 121. Burial Tree at Red Cloud. 122. Pretty Bear, Sioux Chief. 123. Emigrants Surprised. 124. U.S. Indian Soldier under Spotted Tail. 125. Spotted Tail’s Son. 126. Black Crow, Sioux Chief. 127. Spotted Tail´s Son and Family. 128. Sun Dancer. 129. Touch-the-Cloud. Led principal charge, under Crazy Horse, in Custer Massacre. 130. Two-Strike, Sioux Chief. 131. Sioux War Dancers. 132. Gray Wolf and Family. 133. Gray Wolf, Winnebago Chief. 134. Sioux Squaw. 135. Arrapahoe Village and Sand Buttes. 136. Pappoose in Cradle, Strapped to Pony. 137. Indian Graveyard at Red Cloud. 138. Red Cloud Village and Sand Buttes. 139. Red Dog and Daughter. 140. Group of Sioux Chiefs. 141. Four Bears, Sioux Chief. 142. Sioux Brave. 143. Yankton Sioux Chief. 144. Santee Sioux Chief. 145. Cooking Scene at Arrapahoe Village. 146. Indian Guarding prisoners. 147. Arrapahoe Squaws & Ponies at Red Cl’d. 148. Red Clrud’s Lodge. 149. Crow’s Breast, Sioux Chief. 150. Making Love to the Squaws. 151. Warrior, with War Bonnet. 152. Sitting Bull. 153. Big Little Man. 154. Family Group at Red Cloud. 155. Arrapahoe Chiefs and Village. 156. Arrapahoe Chief. 157. American Horse’s Village at Red Cloud. 158. Arrapahoe Squaw. 159. Group at Red Cloud. 160. Two-Strike and Family. 161. Children in the Wigwam. 162. Sioux Squaw, and Pappoose in Cradle. 163. Travay. 164. Group at Spotted Tail Agency. 165. Photographing Indians at Red Cloud. 166. Village at Spotted Tail Agency. 167. Spotted Tail’s Daughter. 168. Pawnee Chief. 169. Sioux Travelling. 170. Learning the Use of the Stereoscope. 171. Roman Nose., Sioux Chief. 172. American Horse’s Lodge. 173. Ponca Chiefs. 174. Group of Chiefs at Bismarck. 175. Black Eagle. 176. War Dance. 177. Sioux Hunter. 178. Sioux Squaw in buckskin suit. 179. Son of a Star, Sioux Chief. 180. Group of Chiefs. 181. Interpreter and Chiefs. 182. Warrior and Squaw. 183. Dressing Beef. 184. Squaw in Funny Dress. 185. Sioux Warrior. 186. Courting. 187. Upper Missouri River Sioux Warrior. 188. Arrapahoe Brave.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 26, 2017 6:09:47 GMT -5
Following are portraits by Hamilton that possibly all were taken in 1877, when he visited the Red Cloud and Spotted Tail agencies. I´m not sure which of the two Spotted Tail portraits is Number 1: 1. Spotted Tail, Sioux Chief 1. Spotted Tail, Sioux Chief 106. White Thunder, Sioux Chief. 108. Sioux Belles. 114. Red Dog’s Daughter. 116. Roman Nose and War Pony. 126. Black Crow, Sioux Chief. 129. Touch-the-Cloud. Led principal charge, under Crazy Horse, in Custer Massacre. 130. Two-Strike, Sioux Chief. 151. Warrior, with War Bonnet. 153. Big Little Man. 158. Arrapahoe Squaw. 160. Two-Strike and Family. 162. Sioux Squaw, and Pappoose in Cradle. 167. Spotted Tail’s Daughter. 171. Roman Nose., Sioux Chief.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 26, 2017 6:15:07 GMT -5
Not included in the list is this stereograph of Rocky Bear's daughter. Perhaps there is a confusion with number 91. "Red Dog’s Daughter", whose name is listed twice. Rockky Bear's daughter
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peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Oct 26, 2017 8:17:10 GMT -5
Thank you Dietmar. What a great job you did. As you noted, Number one on the list is Spotted Tail and Crazy Horse only 104. What does it tell you?. Just to reply on one of your previous comment on why Hamilton did not try to sell Crazy Horse picture to make money since he was so famous back then as he is now. The answer is, my personal opinion only, that Crazy Horse back then in 1877 was not famous at all. Only the military knew who he was. His war deeds, specially on the Little Big Horn, were at the time not know to the outside world and so to Hamilton. It was in the new century, thanks to the famous interviews done to Crazy Horse contemporaries that the truth about Crazy Horse as a warrior and as a man begun to come out, started to emerge, but back then in 1877, he was known as a leading warrior who resisted white encroachment and was a leader at the leader at Little Big Horn. When he was killed, made page fourth on the largest and most famous papers in the East. Nobody cared. In 1877 the big names to the white civilians were Spotted Tail and Red Cloud. At the "Address of Judge Charles C. Hamilton Before the Academy of Science and Le ers of Sioux City, Iowa November 27, 1928" Hamilton's son Judge Charles, clearly stated that, :" there was a bad Indian called Crazy Horse", like if he wanted to introduce to the crowd Crazy Horse name for the first time. That meant that in 1928, he was sure, that the audience knew very little about Crazy Horse and that was at Sioux City in the Middle West half century later. I can only let you imagine in the East in 1877 a few month later Crazy Horse surrendered, how much Hamilton knew of Crazy Horse greatness and fame. Regards
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 26, 2017 9:14:19 GMT -5
Peter,
it could very well be that Crazy Horse was not as famous in 1877 as today, but he was known to the public as a leader of the 'hostile Sioux' since early 1870s. I got newspaper articles from 1870 (New York Herald), 1874 (New Orleans Republican & Nashville Union), 1875 (Evening Star, Washington) -to name a few - and later years, where he was clearly designated as a major figure in the so-called Sioux Wars.
Even as early as 1875 the New Orleans Bulletin (and other newspapers) write that Indian agent Saville had sent messengers to the hostile camps to induce Crazy Horse and Black Twin to come to Washington with the Sioux delegation, which eventually went there in May 1875.
In spring 1876, before the Battle of the Little Bighorn, numerous papers state that the military is out to punish Crazy Horse and his band... and thought they had when Crook destroyed the Northern Cheyenne camp.
Even days before the Little Bighorn battle, the public was informed that the troops expected to strike the camps of Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse soon.
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peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Oct 26, 2017 10:33:34 GMT -5
You are confirming exactly what I said. Barely known to the world out there. Think about when he got killed. It made no news whatsoever. Same few newspapers that you mentioned, perhaps many more, but not a big deal. Never made first page in the East newspapers where the money and the tick population was. Practically almost unknown and the fact that Hamilton had a photo of him in his catalogue, it means that he intended to sell it to the public like the others photos or exploit it to the rest of the world. If he did, he never became reach and so the person who bought it or got it. Hamilton must have sold it for a few dollars or give it away. That it is how much it was worth it at the time a photo of an ugly Indian chief, according to Hamilton son, considered at the time a trouble maker by the military, by the rest of the world and by his own kinsmen who betrayed him at the very end with the exception of some of course.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 26, 2017 10:50:50 GMT -5
I´m sorry, but I can´t agree. Newspaper coverage about Crazy Horse was nationwide. I have cited a few newspapers as examples, but they all easily can be found online in the Library of Congress archives. In spring 1877, before Hamilton took photos at the agencies, Crazy Horse was one of the few Lakota leaders, and beside Sitting Bull THE most reknown leader, that the military was after.
Dozens of articles cover the wait for his surrender in spring 1877. When he was killed in September, all major newspapers wrote about the incident.
At least people at the agencies, like Hamilton that year, must have known about him and his importance.
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Post by grahamew on Oct 26, 2017 11:44:03 GMT -5
Thanks for that photo of the mounted Roman Nose. I'd never seen it - though I had seen a drawing based on it! The river backdrop photos were presumably taken at Spotted Tail, right? The group of chiefs at Bismarck - I'm guessing from the inclusion of Sitting Bull's name in the list - were another photographer's that Hamilton had the right to sell? "Mrs. Galpin and Sioux Chiefs" is, presumably, the Lucas photo... I wonder what the timescale for this list is. This, presumably, is 164:
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peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Oct 26, 2017 13:04:29 GMT -5
I´m sorry, but I can´t agree. Newspaper coverage about Crazy Horse was nationwide. I have cited a few newspapers as examples, but they all easily can be found online in the Library of Congress archives. In spring 1877, before Hamilton took photos at the agencies, Crazy Horse was one of the few Lakota leaders, and beside Sitting Bull THE most reknown leader, that the military was after. Dozens of articles cover the wait for his surrender in spring 1877. When he was killed in September, all major newspapers wrote about the incident. At least people at the agencies, like Hamilton that year, must have known about him and his importance.
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peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Oct 26, 2017 13:53:14 GMT -5
Dietmar for the size of the country back then and the population America had back then, the coverage was almost zero or nobody cared. Please show me one newspaper and one newspaper only out East where the death of Crazy Horse made first page. Of course there was some coverage, Newspapers need attention to sell, to justify their jobs. The coverage of Crazy Horse death in comparison other news of the moment it was minimum, peanuts in comparison a big celebrity should have received. It was all smoke, again, I’m not aware of any big newspaper out East that covered his death in the front page. Making second page and not the front cover, meant like playing soccer in the second or third division in the Bundesliga, not the same as the first. The percentage of civilians who went to work every day for a living, knew nothing, very little or care less about Crazy Horse death. It was not exposed nationwide like an important or historical fact. of course everyone at the agencies knew of Crazy Horse. All the military knew of Crazy Horse and perhaps all bunch of people out there, but with Crazy Horse death, so died his fame. It was all forgotten as soon his fame begun. It was all over quickly. Just remember Hamilton son in his speech in front so many people half century later in a major city:” there was an Indian Chief called Crazy Horse”. He did not say:” there was Crazy Horse. He spoke of him like he was sure the audience had never heard of him and rightfully so. Thank God so many years later the Lakota oral history gave him the respect, fame that he deserved, but thanks only to the Lakota people who could not expose him worldwide yet due to the circumstances being subdued by the whites.
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