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Post by natiza on Dec 29, 2014 14:25:08 GMT -5
A matriarch of my family lived most of her childhood in the 1880s as a slave/servant at the hacienda of a Mexican family near the city of Chihuahua, Mexico. She was recognized as one amongst numerous Apache (often referred to as "india salvaje" "niña salvaje" or "niña matagente" by Mexicans) children (mostly girls) taken captive after battles between the Mexican military and Apache warriors. She was given the name Romalia by the Catholic Church and just prior to her being married in 1894. I am trying to figure out what band of Apache she might have derived from. It makes sense that she was of the Nednhi band considering their large numeric presence in the Mexican state of Chihuahua. The dates, however, also suggest that she might have been of another Chiricahua band, one of numerous women and girls who were taken captive after battles such as that at Tres Castillos in 1880. Can anyone recommend any sources that might be useful for my research? Moreover, is there much of a Nednhi presence at any of the Apache "reservations" in the U.S.? It's astonishing to me how traces of the Nednhi are so difficult to locate either in the U.S. or in Mexico.
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Dec 29, 2014 17:37:55 GMT -5
Natiza, it will be an interesting research, since there is not much data for those families that didn't get into the rolls, and even the ones on the rolls have dificulties to trace ancestry, two facts, on Chihuahua state there was not only Nednhi, Nednhi were around Janos area and down to Carrizal-Villa Ahumada, but there were Chihene or mimbreños from Ascencion to Muleros (Paso del Norte-Juarez) south to Laguna de Guzman, Mashgale or Nenesgane or Natages better known as Mezcaleros from Juarez to Ojinaga, and near to Coahuila there were Lipan. Another fact is intermarriage, For example Mangas Coloradas was Chihene But marriages and lead a band of ChoK'onen as well as Cochise who was Chiricahua and lead for sometime a Bedonkohe; Geronimo married a Nednhi Woman, so dont enclosure your search on only on Naii' Nde or Nednhi.
You can research on church baptizm records and you may try an ADN test on Heritage or Ancestry but it will only confirm Native American and maybe Ndeh heritage but will be hard to go down to the "Clan"
There are some battles records where it mention about how many captives were taken you can try to identify the approximate date when your matriarch was taken.
Good Luck
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Dec 29, 2014 18:15:12 GMT -5
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Post by Mithlo on Dec 29, 2014 19:33:58 GMT -5
VERY Interesting!!!! Tell us more! Any photo's?? Have often wondered why there isn't more information/photo's on many of our people down across the border during the 1870's and 1880's and after.
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Post by jasper4 on Dec 29, 2014 22:06:38 GMT -5
Bedonkohe Ndendahe band or called the Bronco apache. The hacienda del Carmen which is close to Janos was where many captives were kept per mexican historical records. Alas many of my papers have been lost thus I too would like to research this as a project. In the 1970's I had the opt to travel down there and meet many now mexicanos whose kinship was Nde. Cuz good to hear from you and happy new year. Item of note Dasodahae married a mexican girl named Maria, in which he had fight and kill two of his brother in laws for having dared such a marriage.
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Post by jasper4 on Dec 29, 2014 22:18:02 GMT -5
A matriarch of my family lived most of her childhood in the 1880s as a slave/servant at the hacienda of a Mexican family near the city of Chihuahua, Mexico. She was recognized as one amongst numerous Apache (often referred to as "india salvaje" "niña salvaje" or "niña matagente" by Mexicans) children (mostly girls) taken captive after battles between the Mexican military and Apache warriors. She was given the name Romalia by the Catholic Church and just prior to her being married in 1894. I am trying to figure out what band of Apache she might have derived from. It makes sense that she was of the Nednhi band considering their large numeric presence in the Mexican state of Chihuahua. The dates, however, also suggest that she might have been of another Chiricahua band, one of numerous women and girls who were taken captive after battles such as that at Tres Castillos in 1880. Can anyone recommend any sources that might be useful for my research? Moreover, is there much of a Nednhi presence at any of the Apache "reservations" in the U.S.? It's astonishing to me how traces of the Nednhi are so difficult to locate either in the U.S. or in Mexico. Suggest you get online records of mexican historical facts maybe of the town of Janos or church records. |
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Dec 31, 2014 19:18:34 GMT -5
VERY Interesting!!!! Tell us more! Any photo's?? Have often wondered why there isn't more information/photo's on many of our people down across the border during the 1870's and 1880's and after. Mithlo, no much photos of our people on the mexican side for two main reasons, 1.-Chihuahua and Sonora goverments want to annihilate Nde, 2.- Photography technology was availabe mainly on the US side or on the Center of Mexico, was very few cameras on the north of Mexico, this remains up to the Mexican Revolution from 1910 trough 1917 where most of pictures belong to US studios. I will be looking for photos I have seen on books. Regards |
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Jan 6, 2015 16:36:18 GMT -5
Bedonkohe Ndendahe band or called the Bronco apache. The hacienda del Carmen which is close to Janos was where many captives were kept per mexican historical records. Alas many of my papers have been lost thus I too would like to research this as a project. In the 1970's I had the opt to travel down there and meet many now mexicanos whose kinship was Nde. Cuz good to hear from you and happy new year. Item of note Dasodahae married a mexican girl named Maria, in which he had fight and kill two of his brother in laws for having dared such a marriage. On this link you can find Janos Presidio Records, for some reason records are on Texas www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utlac/00083/lac-00083p1.html Regards |
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Post by pullingup on Jan 7, 2015 17:58:14 GMT -5
An unfortunate complicating factor is that it was common in Mexico and also in the U.S. to refer to any brown skinned person or group that was troublesome, or poorly known, or which someone wanted to disparage, as "Apache". That is why there are references to Yuma Apaches, and Mohave Apaches, and others that were also not really Apaches at all. Some of the non-Apache native people in the northern Sierra Madre were called "Apache" just due to lack of familiarity. Some non-natives still use the term "Apache" for people who have a willful or 'wild' personality.
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Post by pullingup on Jan 7, 2015 18:06:11 GMT -5
Another complication is that there were quite a few Western Apaches, Mescalero Apaches, and Lipan Apaches in Mexico also. The Chiricahua were not the only Apache nation that suffered from attacks and slave raids. It seems that many of the Apache captives were moved far away from Chihuahua and Sonora, and they made poor slaves due to their tendency to die in captivity.
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Post by CHIHUAHUA-NATIVE on Nov 28, 2017 4:41:23 GMT -5
WE WERE NATIVE BEFORE AMERICA.THE HISTORY OF THE APACHE TRIBES ARE ON BOTH SIDES BEFORE BORDERS.AND I READ DEFFERENT THINGS ABOUT SAME NATIVES SUCH AS CHIEF GERONIMO BEING FROM A TRIBE SOUTH OF THE RIO GRANDE.OF WICH THERE WERE OTHER CLANS ALSO.I THANK MY CREATOR THAT I AM STILL NOMADIC!AND LIVE ON ONE WORLD.MODERN NATIVE CHIEF CHUMA.HAPPY HUNTING AND LET US NOT LET OUR EGO'S GET IN THE WAY OF OUR SEARCHING.WE ARE MANY AND WE KNOW WHO WE ARE.LOVE-OUT XOXOXO
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Post by jasper4 on Jan 9, 2018 14:12:35 GMT -5
WE WERE NATIVE BEFORE AMERICA.THE HISTORY OF THE APACHE TRIBES ARE ON BOTH SIDES BEFORE BORDERS.AND I READ DEFFERENT THINGS ABOUT SAME NATIVES SUCH AS CHIEF GERONIMO BEING FROM A TRIBE SOUTH OF THE RIO GRANDE.OF WICH THERE WERE OTHER CLANS ALSO.I THANK MY CREATOR THAT I AM STILL NOMADIC!AND LIVE ON ONE WORLD.MODERN NATIVE CHIEF CHUMA.HAPPY HUNTING AND LET US NOT LET OUR EGO'S GET IN THE WAY OF OUR SEARCHING.WE ARE MANY AND WE KNOW WHO WE ARE.LOVE-OUT XOXOXO Well FYI he who yawns was NEVER a chief but a diiyin. |
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Post by Joanne on Jan 10, 2018 17:54:51 GMT -5
Hi, I don't know how active this site is, but I am trying to figure out who I am. I grew up being told my ancestors came from Italy. Hmm after getting my dna tested I found out my ancestors migrated to Sicily, Italy, in the 1800"s, from southern Europe, Greece, Palestine...etc.(4%european Jewish) and from Scotland, Ireland and Wales, and scandinavia,and southern Calif. and Mexico...I am have about 14% Native american in my dna. I was quite shocked, how could I be from all those places and when? I have forever imbedded alot of Indian ways in a modern world and have been called crazy many times. I carry around natural herbs and remedies and are always helping to heal other people. I thought this was just remnants from reincarnation..anyone care to respond, greatly welcomed..I'm very confused...peace
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Post by Johnathan on Jan 17, 2018 2:14:57 GMT -5
To whom can provide me the information,
I am trying to figure out if there was a Chief Thunderface of the Apache tribe. I have been trying so hard to search for information on this, but can't seem to come across any. I know I am Native American, but it has been speculated that I may have been Sioux. If there is any information on a Chief Thunderface I would appreciate anything, he was my great, or great great grandfather. Thank you.
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Post by jasper4 on Jan 24, 2018 11:08:35 GMT -5
To whom can provide me the information, I am trying to figure out if there was a Chief Thunderface of the Apache tribe. I have been trying so hard to search for information on this, but can't seem to come across any. I know I am Native American, but it has been speculated that I may have been Sioux. If there is any information on a Chief Thunderface I would appreciate anything, he was my great, or great great grandfather. Thank you. FYI when you say apache tribe of which band do you refer to. Or this no thunderface ever in the chiricahua band. |
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