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Post by Dietmar on Jun 20, 2018 10:17:49 GMT -5
A new member, who said she is married in the family, has sent this corrections of Sitting Bull´s list of descendants:
Wanakiksan-William/John Sitting Bull b.1876 d. 1956
Spouse: Tunwayewin-Scout Woman b. 1875 d. 1931
Children:
Daughter: Nancy Sitting Bull b. 1903, d. 1959
Daughter: Rosa Sitting Bull b. 1906, d. 1907
Nancy Sitting Bull 1903-1959
1st Spouse: George Stewart b. 1897 d. 1939
2nd Spouse: Frank Kicking Bear b. 1887, d. 1965
Children:
Son: Stacey Stewart b. 1923, d. 1944
Son: Emerson Stewart b. 4-13-1925, d. 1982
Son: Christie Stewart b. 1926, d. 1929
Son: Sifray Seth Stewart b. 6-13-1929, d. 9-15-1964
Nancy Sitting Bull 1903-1959
2nd Spouse: Frank Kicking Bear b. 1887, d. 1965
Children:
Son: Joseph Kicking Bear b. 12-31-1932, d. 1934
Son: Casey Kicking Bear b.1936 d. 1984
Sifray Seth Stewart b. 6-13-1929, d. 9-15-1964
Spouse: Jessie American Bear b. 1932, d. 1984
Children:
Son: Charles George Stewart b. 1953
alive
Daughter: Christine Ann Stewart b. 1954
alive
Son: William Gene Stewart b. 1955, d. 2009
Daughter: Bernadine Sybil Patricia Stewart b. 1956
alive
Daughter: Pabilita Elizabeth Stewart b. 1957, d. 1981
Daughter: Jacqueline Rose Stewart b. 1959, d. 1959
Daughter: Louise Hope Stewart b. 1961, d. 2013
Daughter: Doris Katheryn Stewart b. 1963
alive
Son: David Stewart (Halsey) b. 1965
unknown
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Post by Californian on Oct 31, 2018 19:58:06 GMT -5
Sitting Bull's grandson by his daughter Her Many Horses - I have had a copy of this image for several years, supposedly showing on the left Leo Archambault and on the right Joseph Fly. Could that be the grandson of Sitting Bull - I see somewhat a physical resemblance to Her Many Horses that appeared on a couple of group photographs dated approx. Fall 1881 or early 1882  photographer Frank Fiske  extracted from 1881/1882 group photo with her father, mother and grandmother - facial features do resemble Joseph Fly as an adult - the kid on her lap is Courting-a-woman, who died not live past 1885/1886 |
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Post by Dietmar on Nov 1, 2018 9:51:49 GMT -5
I also think it´s a Fiske. The State Historical Society of North Dakota owns a copy.
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Post by gregor on Nov 2, 2018 7:37:57 GMT -5
Sitting Bull's grandson by his daughter Her Many Horses - I have had a copy of this image for several years, supposedly showing on the left Leo Archambault and on the right Joseph Fly. Could that he the grandson of Sitting Bull - I see somewhat a physical resemblance to Her Many Horses that appeared on a couple of group photographs dated approx. 1882/1883. photographer possibly could be Frank Fiske ? extracted from 1882/1883 group photo with her father, mother and grandmother - facial features do resemble Joseph Fly as an adult Yes, it is Joseph "Joe" Fly, who died in 1912. No descendants. I have another photo of Joe, shot in Haskell or Carlisle. I have to look it up. Dietmar, I studied the above Family tree. Where exactly is the News? Louis/John/Nurcan Sitting Bull was an adopted son. His biological father was Bear Louse. Or?
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Post by gregor on Nov 3, 2018 10:04:24 GMT -5
Oops, I was a little bit too fast and mixed up John and William.
John / Nurcan / Deaf and Dumb (1867? - 1956) was SB's stepson, parents were Bear Louse and Seen-By-the-Nation. With William (= Runs-Away-From) it's a little harder. Some sources assume that William (1878-1909) was Nurcan's brother, other sources say that he is SB's son (one of twins). Maybe there were also 2 Williams in the family, since the year of birth is given as 1863 and in another case as 1878. I tend to the twin version. William was married to Scout Woman, a daughter Nancy Sitting Bull (1903-1959). Nancy was married to George Stewart (1897-1939) and Frank Kicking Bear, as stated above. Children as above.
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Post by gregor on Nov 3, 2018 10:11:42 GMT -5
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Post by Californian on Nov 4, 2018 18:13:31 GMT -5
thank you Gregor, appreciate it. I found that same image in North Dakota History, 2001 vol. 68, No. 3 - page 31, part of an article "To Be Examples to ... Their People", Standing Rock Sioux Students at Hampton Institute, 1878-1923 (part two). The full article can be perused at this website location: history.nd.gov/publications/to-be-examples-2.pdf |
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Post by hreinn on Nov 10, 2018 16:07:53 GMT -5
Does somebody know if the oldest sister of Sitting Bull, Yellow Robe Woman, married to Little Wound ?
If not, to whom did she marry to ? Or did she never marry ?
Does somebody know if Yellow Robe Woman had another name ?
Was she ever named Grease ?
During her adult years, did Yellow Robe Woman live in Hunkpapa camps ?
According to a genealogy tree based on Collier's interview with Lone Bull (Pawnee Killer's grandson) in 1939.
There was someone named Little Wound who married an unnamed sister of Sitting Bull (Hunkpapa, Lakota) (Let's call her Y1).
This couple had 5 children: Little Wound, Yellow Wolf, Running Horse, Bear Bull (Bull Bear) and unnamed daughter (Let's call her Y2) who married Buffalo Bear (Bull Bear) (Itazipco, Lakota)
This latter Little Wound (child of Little Wound and Sitting Bull's sister (Y1)) married Chief Woman, who was daughter of Pawnee Killer and Flys Above.
Y2 (= unnamed daughter of the former Little Wound and Sitting Bull's sister (Y1)) married 2 times.
a) she married to Buffalo Bear (Bull Bear) from the Itazipco, Lakota and together they had 1 son named Thunder Bull.
b) she married to Pole and together they had 1 daughter named Twin Woman.
If Y1 was Yellow Robe Woman.
Then Y2 gave her daughter Twin Woman the name of her grandmother's sister (Twin Woman (Hunkpapa, Lakota)).
Because Yellow Robe Woman and Twin Woman were twins and oldest sisters of Sitting Bull, according to LaDonna's genalogy in this thread.
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Post by hreinn on Nov 17, 2018 15:31:41 GMT -5
Below are photos of some of the people mentioned in the above post. Photo 1: Sitting Bull Photo 2: Part of the family of Little Wound (left), George Little Wound (standing) and Grease who is wife of Little Wound and possible a sister of Sitting Bull. Sitting Bull and Grease have some resemblance, but are they siblings ? Lone Bull's genealogy tree can be interpreted in that way.   |
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Post by Californian on Oct 3, 2022 23:24:20 GMT -5
Sitting Bull: The Collected Speeches by Mark Diedrich (1998), Coyote Books, Rochester MN, ISBN 1-892415-00-3, softcover, 190 pages, 4°
The author, Mark Diedrich, compiled and edited speeches attributed to Sitting Bull, presenting it in chronological order, citing sources in footnotes and also with a bibliography at the end. The book was published as a limited edition, thus volumes that are offered on antiquarian book sites tend to be rather pricey, going for as much as US$ 100 per copy. However the author continues to sell this book through his own publishing entity for US$ 29.95 + shipping. Any interested parties should write to: Coyote Books
3818 14th Ave NW
Rochester MN 55991
USA
email: markdiedrich@hotmail.com Mark does not accept credit card or PayPal, thus you would be writing to him and then send him a check through the mail. click onto image to enlarge
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Post by cinye78 on Oct 4, 2022 13:52:24 GMT -5
Sitting Bull: The Collected Speeches by Mark Diedrich (1998), Coyote Books, Rochester MN, ISBN 1-892415-00-3, softcover, 190 pages, 4°
The author, Mark Diedrich, compiled and edited speeches attributed to Sitting Bull, presenting it in chronological order, citing sources in footnotes and also with a bibliography at the end. The book was published as a limited edition, thus volumes that are offered on antiquarian book sites tend to be rather pricey, going for as much as US$ 100 per copy. However the author continues to sell this book through his own publishing entity for US$ 29.95 + shipping. Any interested parties should write to: Coyote Books
3818 14th Ave NW
Rochester MN 55991
USA
email: markdiedrich@hotmail.com Mark does not accept credit card or PayPal, thus you would be writing to him and then send him a check through the mail. click onto image to enlarge
View Attachment
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Post by cinemo on Mar 17, 2023 14:06:56 GMT -5
Chief Sitting Bull's headdress, shirt and other personal artifacts are prepared for display at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto.
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Post by cinemo on Jun 18, 2023 12:09:49 GMT -5
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Post by grahamew on Jun 18, 2023 13:50:38 GMT -5
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Post by Dietmar on Jun 18, 2023 14:47:16 GMT -5
This paper was sent to me by Louis Garcia:
A Message from Garcia
The history and culture of the Spirit Lake Dakota
By Louis Garcia © 2/5/05
Message 15
McDonald the Mail Carrier
Before the telegraph line was established, letters carried by civilian military personnel and later by civilian contractors were the only communications between the forts in Dakota Territory. These civilian riders were mostly Metis who knew the county well. They knew how to take care of themselves in inclement weather; also they spoke the various Indian languages. The northern route between Forts Totten, and Fort Stevenson was so dangerous that the mail carriers sometimes required a military escort. In the late 1860’s the northern Lakota and Nakota began to harass these forts as soon as they were built.
Charlie “Bobby” McDonald was one of these brave mail carriers. He carried the mail back and forth between Totten and Stevenson. Bawbee (Bobby) as he was known, was described as a light skinned Ojibwa or Cree Metis (mixed-blood of Indian and white parentage), unsociable, but a fearless mail carrier. He was married to Mary, the daughter of the famous scout and fur trader Pierre Bottineau. Bobby fathered three children by Mary. As Chief Guide of the Couriers, McDonald or MacDonald was paid one hundred dollars a month, being well compensated for his dangerous missions. He was young, energetic, and brave.
On May 15, 1868 Charlie’s luck ran out, the Hunkpapa, Lakota killed McDonald and a fellow rider. Their tragic deaths occurred on the north side Strawberry Lake (Lac des Fraises, Section 35, Township 150, Range 80, about seven miles south west of Ŝunkaoti or Dog Den Butte) in present day McLean County, North Dakota. Their bodies were never found. That is all of the basic facts. The tale that follows is full of conjecture. The real facts have not come to light.
The first question asked: ‘who was the man who was killed with McDonald?
The commander of Fort Stevenson Colonel Philippe Regis de Trobriand reported to General Terry at Fort Rice on May 30, 1868, the Hunkpapa, killed two mail carriers named MacDonald and Joe Hamlin. Later in his journal, de Trobriand says that he personally went out to look for the remains of the two mail carriers MacDonald and Joe Elmla. However it is possible that Joe Hamlin and Joe Elmla are one in the same man as many Metis had more than one name in accordance with Indian custom. Some forty years later the name Rolette appears in the Collections of the State Historical Society of North Dakota, (page 180), published in 1910 as the second man. The St. Anne’s Centennial book (page 463) gives a third name, Joe Amlot. Joe paid for some supplies with a government horse hobble some weeks prior to his death. Angelique Jerome (McGillis) and a LaRocque sold the ‘supplies’ in the Antelope Hills (Pierce County). Dana Wright saw the hobble, still in the possession of the family.
According to de Trobriands’ journal, two other mail couriers by the names of Brown, an Irishman, and Joe Martin, a Metis, were captured by Indians claiming to be Yanktonai under Chief Matowakan (Medicine Bear). Both couriers understood and could talk the Dakota Language. They were stripped of everything but their underwear and boots. Because it was raining one of their captors gave Martin an old coat to wear. This coat was pierced by two bullet holes in the front, and two tears in the back. The prisoners recognized the coat as the one owned by Joe Hamlin. Their captors apologized for killing MacDonald and Hamlin calling them ‘men from the Red River’. They killed them by mistake thinking them Whitemen. One stepped forward and said he killed one of the mail carriers; he was armed with MacDonald’s sixteen-shot Henry rifle. The leader (unnamed) was wearing MacDonald’s watch chain; others in the group were wearing other articles of clothing belonging to the two murdered mail carriers. As night was quickly approaching the leader told Brown and Martin to escape because he could no longer hold
back his young men who wanted to kill them. Not needing to be told twice, the two half-naked mail carriers made their escape.
Why were the bodies of the mail carriers not found? Some in that time period suggested that McDonalds companion was a miner returning from the Montana gold fields. Charley murdered this unnamed miner for his gold. There was even a reported sighting of McDonald in Saint Paul, Minnesota, but he fled into the crowd upon hearing his name called.
The story now takes a new twist when we discover that Sitting Bull (Tatankaiyotake) when a young man drew his pictorial war record. Among the illustrations is the scene where he depicts killing a horseback rider west of Fort Totten. The mail carrier (?) is wearing a tall beaver top hat and buckskin jacket. Sitting Bull is shooting him in the back, in the left shoulder blade area. These exploit drawings are true facts; no Lakota man of the period would dare to credit himself with another’s deed. Is this rider McDonald? If so, then he was done-in by the most famous of all the Lakota leaders, the name Sitting Bull was later to be known world-wide.
Decost Smith an adventurer and collector of the time period, says that Sitting Bull did the deed. He also collected the buckskin jacket supposedly worn by McDonald and published a photograph of it in his book. Some of Mr. Smiths collected artifacts from the 1880’s are deposited in the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. The second question is: Where is the jacket today? Is it in another museum or a private collection?
The North Dakota Works Progress Administration (WPA) Papers supply more information: May 15, 1868 McDonald and Rolette, mail carriers, killed by the Sioux near Strawberry Lakes, McLean County. [Frank] Palmer received the bag of mail the night before and camped with McDonald. McDonald started back to Fort Stevenson and was killed.
The historian O.J.Libby records in his notebook the following: Charles ‘Bobby’ McDonald’s partner had Indian blood and ran to McDonalds rescue, hearing him call out, “They are cutting me to pieces, help me”. His companion started back, but the Sioux called out, “Go back or you will get the same”. McDonald called again “They are cutting me up alive”. McDonald’s hands and feet were put up on sticks and the Sioux had a dance before Fort Totten in sight of the soldiers. His companion brought the news to Pierre Bottineau at Onses. McDonald had saved up money and told Mary J. it was to be his last trip. He would settle on a farm and stop carrying mail. In his journal, de Tobriand mentions that he was not concerned with Mary being destitute, as her father was wealthy.
The 1870 census published in “The History of Fort Totten” on page 226 lists Mary McDonald, age 27, occupation cook, with Minnesota as her birthplace. Just below her Virginia McDonald, age 3, birthplace Minnesota. The other two children are not included.
The widow, “Big” Mary (named so because she was rather large, but well proportioned) McDonald later became the housekeeper for Ernest Brenner at ‘Brenner’s Crossing’ on the Sheyenne River. This crossing on the Ft. Totten to Fort Seward trail was located in the northwest quarter of Section 35, Township 150, Range 64, Eddy County. Warwick Memories (page 41) gives the names of Jemima and Christina as the other two children of Big Mary, stating that Christina was probably a daughter of Brenner. Dana Wright in his notes says that Brenner later lived with a Christina Charlebois. Mary was buried in the Pincott Cemetery (Ne1/4 Section 1 –T149 –R64W), Tiffany Township, Eddy County, in an unmarked grave.
Bibliography
Centennial Committee: St. Anne’s Centennial: 100 years of Faith 1885-1985; Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation, Belcourt, ND 1985
De Noyer, Charles: The History of Fort Totten; Collections of the State Historical Society of North Dakota. Volume III, Bismarck Tribune 1910 (Orrin J. Libby, Editor)
De Trorbiand, Philippe: Military Life in Dakota: The Journal of Philippe Regis de Trobriand. Translated and edited from the French by Lucile M. Kane. St. Paul: Alvord memorial Commission 1951.
Historical Committee: Warwick Memories; Two Rivers Printing, Jamestown, ND, 2001
Libby, O. J. Papers: A85. Notebook Number 9. North Dakota Heritage Center, Bismarck.
Monson, Cherry: Personal communication with local historian. Warwick, ND. 2002.
Smith, Decost: Red Indian Experiences. George Allen & Unwin Ltd, London. 1949.
WPA Papers: Geographical Place Names. Works Progress Administration. Microfilm roll number 30557.
Wright, Dana Papers: A46, Box 7; North Dakota Heritage Center, Bismarck.
Thank you very much, Louie!!
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