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Post by naiches2 on Mar 30, 2011 14:41:56 GMT -5
Thanks of lot, Mithlo! This very interesting identification. I got that picture from www.ahco.army.mil (link posted Dickmill). Look there. There are some pictures of Apaches in PDF. If you can, post portrait of Mithlo, please. Naiches. |
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 30, 2011 14:46:53 GMT -5
Knox Nostlin. After Carlisle and served in the army he left to Arizona with his mother.  |
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 30, 2011 14:48:48 GMT -5
Do you by chance have a higher resolution of this pic?  This picture is of Kesetta Roosevelt and Jack Mather, Lipan Apache children that were captured and sent to Carlisle. Sorry I'm not. Look at SIRIS. |
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 30, 2011 15:28:08 GMT -5
@ naiches2 ------ This picture I am posting is of a small group arriving at Carlisle December 8, 1886. Left to Right: Dorothy Naiche, Eva Anosien, Ramona Chihuahua, Asa Daklugie, Nellie Carry/Gray "daughter of Colle", Ambrose ChaChu, Charles Bictowsewah, ------ Mithlo Sorry but Ambrose Chachu was born in 1863 (info from his tomb stone) and in 1886 was too old for this boy  Nelly Gray (1883 -27/05/1901) was 1st Sam Houzous' wife. Too young for this time (1886-1887) Ramona Chihuahua for me is a girl from another picture. There her name's Janette Pahgostatun  |
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 30, 2011 15:59:42 GMT -5
Ramona Chihuahua  |
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 30, 2011 16:01:05 GMT -5
Jeanette Pahgostatum  |
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Post by Mithlo on Mar 30, 2011 19:50:30 GMT -5
The Government and army practice of estimating a persons age (and birth year) according to ones size is not "official" especially with my people. The dates in the cemetery are "way" off. Some by 10 or 12 years. One of my family members birth year is off by 5 years. I live here (near Ft. Sill) and all our records are far more accurate. Nellie's record shows she was born in the 1870's and was Sam's 2nd wife. His first wife was a San Carlos Apache woman and together they had a son, Cecil Haozous. She took the boy and returned to her own people. Ambrose Chachu was not a boy, but a 23 year old. Like Sam Haozous, Ambrose was a short small-built young man, did not stay at Carlisle long. He returned to Mount Vernon and married Ellen, sister of Jason Betzinez. Jeanette (Ba-gust-tet-ahn) entered Caslisle Nov. 4th, over 1 month before Ramona Chihuahua entered on Dec. 8th, the date of the photo. Not the same date, nor clothes, nor same girl. Ramona is small, yet 2 years older than Jeanette. Dorothy's Apache name, Deh-Kluh-Kizhee. Eva died at Carlisle July 31, 1888 and Charles was Navajo blood (adopted Chiricahua). There are about 1500 photographs of my people here, all identified but a few photo's.
Mithlo
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 31, 2011 10:13:39 GMT -5
You have very strong arguments. I'll agree. But boy 'Ambrose Chachu' under question. I saw Chachue only on one photo, and there is another man. Look... Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Mar 31, 2011 11:47:00 GMT -5
The Government and army practice of estimating a persons age (and birth year) according to ones size is not "official" especially with my people. The dates in the cemetery are "way" off. Some by 10 or 12 years. One of my family members birth year is off by 5 years. I live here (near Ft. Sill) and all our records are far more accurate. Nellie's record shows she was born in the 1870's and was Sam's 2nd wife. His first wife was a San Carlos Apache woman and together they had a son, Cecil Haozous. She took the boy and returned to her own people. Ambrose Chachu was not a boy, but a 23 year old. Like Sam Haozous, Ambrose was a short small-built young man, did not stay at Carlisle long. He returned to Mount Vernon and married Ellen, sister of Jason Betzinez. Jeanette (Ba-gust-tet-ahn) entered Caslisle Nov. 4th, over 1 month before Ramona Chihuahua entered on Dec. 8th, the date of the photo. Not the same date, nor clothes, nor same girl. Ramona is small, yet 2 years older than Jeanette. Dorothy's Apache name, Deh-Kluh-Kizhee. Eva died at Carlisle July 31, 1888 and Charles was Navajo blood (adopted Chiricahua). There are about 1500 photographs of my people here, all identified but a few photo's. Mithlo Thanks a lot, Mitlho, for giving us such information and especially native names of your people. I try to list the 144 Chiricahuas' outbreakers on 1885 ( see a 144 challenge), by name, age, photo and relationship. Do you know the apache name of : Paul Naiche. Tascelona (wife of Beshe). Ramona and Eugene Chihuahua-names of the other two wife of Chihuahua. Counteza. Mañonetta (wife of Geronimo). Fenton Geronimo. Perico. Mangas. Cora and Franck Mangas. Chinche (killed on march 1886). Goso, maybe it was his apache name. Could you also identified the warriors on photos at Fort Marion, arrived with Chihuahua (see chiricahuas on Florida). Thanks in advance. PS: Naiche try to do the list of all the Chiricahuas who were exiled to Florida. |
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Post by kayitah on Mar 31, 2011 16:02:56 GMT -5
The Government and army practice of estimating a persons age (and birth year) according to ones size is not "official" especially with my people. The dates in the cemetery are "way" off. Some by 10 or 12 years. One of my family members birth year is off by 5 years. I live here (near Ft. Sill) and all our records are far more accurate. Nellie's record shows she was born in the 1870's and was Sam's 2nd wife. His first wife was a San Carlos Apache woman and together they had a son, Cecil Haozous. She took the boy and returned to her own people. Ambrose Chachu was not a boy, but a 23 year old. Like Sam Haozous, Ambrose was a short small-built young man, did not stay at Carlisle long. He returned to Mount Vernon and married Ellen, sister of Jason Betzinez. Jeanette (Ba-gust-tet-ahn) entered Caslisle Nov. 4th, over 1 month before Ramona Chihuahua entered on Dec. 8th, the date of the photo. Not the same date, nor clothes, nor same girl. Ramona is small, yet 2 years older than Jeanette. Dorothy's Apache name, Deh-Kluh-Kizhee. Eva died at Carlisle July 31, 1888 and Charles was Navajo blood (adopted Chiricahua). There are about 1500 photographs of my people here, all identified but a few photo's. Mithlo Thanks a lot, Mitlho, for giving us such information and especially native names of your people. I try to list the 144 Chiricahuas' outbreakers on 1885 ( see a 144 challenge), by name, age, photo and relationship. Do you know the apache name of : Paul Naiche. Tascelona (wife of Beshe). Ramona and Eugene Chihuahua-names of the other two wife of Chihuahua. Counteza. Mañonetta (wife of Geronimo). Fenton Geronimo. Perico. Mangas. Cora and Franck Mangas. Chinche (killed on march 1886). Goso, maybe it was his apache name. Could you also identified the warriors on photos at Fort Marion, arrived with Chihuahua (see chiricahuas on Florida). Thanks in advance. PS: Naiche try to do the list of all the Chiricahuas who were exiled to Florida. I think both, Chinche and Goso, are Apache names |
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Post by kayitah on Mar 31, 2011 16:06:57 GMT -5
You have very strong arguments. I'll agree. But boy 'Ambrose Chachu' under question. I saw Chachue only on one photo, and there is another man. Look... Chachue is actually Alfred Chato (in this image). But where did you see Ambrose Chachu?  The man identifed a Tissnolthos is Kayitah, but I guess you know that.  |
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Post by naiches2 on Mar 31, 2011 16:15:39 GMT -5
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Post by penjady on Mar 31, 2011 19:17:57 GMT -5
You have very strong arguments. I'll agree. But boy 'Ambrose Chachu' under question. I saw Chachue only on one photo, and there is another man. Look... Chachue is actually Alfred Chato (in this image). But where did you see Ambrose Chachu? The man identifed a Tissnolthos is Kayitah, but I guess you know that. Respectfully disagree. Top Row- Tuclanny, Too-is-gah, Coonie, Tissnolthis, Mithlo, Yanosha, Haozous (Not 100% though) Bottom- Naiche, Mangus, CHatto, Kaahteney, Fatty & Perico |
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Post by bobby on Apr 1, 2011 23:03:09 GMT -5
I think I can recognize the following: L-R (sitting): James Kaywaykla,  , , , Charlie Istee (Victorio’s son), Jason Betzinez and Gail Marko (Seth-mooda's son)  |
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Post by naiches2 on Apr 2, 2011 13:16:33 GMT -5
@ naiches2 ------ This picture I am posting is of a small group arriving at Carlisle December 8, 1886. Left to Right: Dorothy Naiche, Eva Anosien, Ramona Chihuahua, Asa Daklugie, Nellie Carry/Gray "daughter of Colle", Ambrose ChaChu, Charles Bictowsewah, ------ Mithlo From Beef Creek Cemetery: CHARLES BICTOWSEWAH APACHE, GRANDSON OF CHEE-AHN-CHEENH, 1874 - 1904 |
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