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Post by perico on Apr 30, 2010 16:25:05 GMT -5
Can someone tell me where I can find the complete set of the Reed & Wallace set of photographs of the Chiricahua Apaches while they were prisoners of war at Mount Vernon Barrack, Alabama? I noticed there is some I have never seen here before with identifications that I dont have.
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Post by jeroen on May 3, 2010 4:21:28 GMT -5
I have never seen them in one whole set and I don't know how many were actually taken. Perhaps Naiches2 can help you further as he has posted most of them here. I have this one identified as Toclanny and his wife (Siki) but I am not 100% on this:  |
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Post by perico on May 3, 2010 9:36:58 GMT -5
jeroen, Thank you. Where did you get your identification from. The U.S. Military Institute has alot of them, but there where 2 I didnt know about. I have never seen them in one whole set and I don't know how many were actually taken. Perhaps Naiches2 can help you further as he has posted most of them here. I have this one identified as Toclanny and his wife (Siki) but I am not 100% on this: |
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Post by naiches2 on May 5, 2010 15:32:55 GMT -5
Sorry my friends, but this man is not Toklanny. I think this man is Sergeant Noche. Look at this pic (identification by NMAI Collections):  |
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Post by jeroen on May 6, 2010 5:55:40 GMT -5
Naiches, I think you might be right, I had my doubts about the Toclanny identification, also because the lady does not look like Siki (Loco's daughter). Also, he does not look like the later Toclanny portraits showing him with a moustache. And yes, there is a good resemblance with Noche (also see the portrait posted in the Taza thread)
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Post by perico on May 6, 2010 9:44:38 GMT -5
I am sure this is not Toclanny or Siki. Im not convinced it is Noche though either. Im still looking into this picture.
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Post by jeroen on May 7, 2010 12:38:39 GMT -5
Do we have additional info and /or pictures of Noche?
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Post by kayitah on May 7, 2010 18:16:02 GMT -5
The man who had been photographed with his wife is the same person who's standing between (behind) Geronimo and Naiché on the above group photo.
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Post by naiches2 on May 8, 2010 1:17:21 GMT -5
The man who had been photographed with his wife is the same person who's standing between (behind) Geronimo and Naiché on the above group photo. Hi kayitah! If this man is same man his name is Go-kli (Go-kliz). Died 1901. From On the bloody road to Jesus: Christianity and the Chiricahua Apaches by H. Henrietta Stockel (p.284): Go-kliz was Naiche's brother-in-law, having married Naiche's half sister. He had been one of US scouts working against Chiricahuas. He is Western Apache (San Carlos group)married Chiricahua woman. Go-kli served in the company of Apache scouts at Mount Vernon. He loved to draw. Here's an example of his work.   |
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Post by perico on May 9, 2010 18:09:14 GMT -5
The man who had been photographed with his wife is the same person who's standing between (behind) Geronimo and Naiché on the above group photo. Is this a guess or is published in something? |
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Post by kayitah on May 10, 2010 10:09:31 GMT -5
neither, it's obvious if you compare the two images  |
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Post by perico on May 10, 2010 18:58:24 GMT -5
neither, it's obvious if you compare the two images I wouldnt go as far as it being obvious. I'll do some comparisons at work with high resolution versions of these pictures. If that is indeed Gokliz, the woman is most likely Naithlotonz, half sister of Naiche. |
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Post by jeroen on May 11, 2010 3:13:30 GMT -5
Identifying people in old photographs always amounts to some kind of guesswork I suppose. If the many discussions on this board prove anything, it is that longtime accepted ideas and identifications, published and all, can be doubted or even shown to be erroneous. So when you do comparisons with high resolution versions, it will still be an interpretation, we can almost never be certain. Having said that, I am looking forward to your conclusion!
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Post by perico on May 11, 2010 9:52:26 GMT -5
Yes it is guess work, I work with these pictures all day long. Alot of times with high resolution pictures it is very helpful in doing the guesswork. I was simply stating that I didnt think it was obvious. Do you think this is obviously Gokliz? Obviously, possibly, definately, and maybe are different for sure.
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Post by naiches2 on May 11, 2010 10:59:09 GMT -5
I still agree with Kaytah, looking at his white trousers and dark jacket. It is evident that these photos were taken in the same day. Is Go-kliz.
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