Terrazas' prisoners photo

[naiches2]

Here is a three photographs of Apache prisoners from Victorio’s band after Tres Castillos battle.



Pay attention to the scalp tied to poles in the background. They saw our friend Josephina from the Italian site farwest.it

Cit. from Dan L. Thrapp: Victorio and the Mimbres Apaches, pp. 310-11.
Reported by a Chicago Times correspondent:
The whole city turned out – all classes and conditions… The bands played, and from the church and cathedral towers the bells rang out in tuneful clamor… [Beyond the city] we could discover some black objects against the sky like waving plumes of the knights of old… these waving plumes are ghastly scalps of the fallen enemy, held aloft to the grazing crowd, who yell and cry. They are on poles about ten feet long, carried by victors four abreast. We count them, 78 in number, sixteen of which are women and children. I had of course expected to see some scalps, but here I saw a long black line of terrible looking objects worse by far than I had supposed. The whole head of hair had been in most cases taken.
This campaign will cost the state not less than $50,000 cash outlay [for scalps].

Another photo



and one more



zooming woman with gray hair

[perico]

Jun 15, 2010 6:10:35 GMT -5 naiches2 said:

Here is a three photographs of Apache prisoners from Victorio’s band after Tres Castillos battle.



Pay attention to the scalp tied to poles in the background. They saw our friend Josephina from the Italian site farwest.it

Cit. from Dan L. Thrapp: Victorio and the Mimbres Apaches, pp. 310-11.
Reported by a Chicago Times correspondent:
The whole city turned out – all classes and conditions… The bands played, and from the church and cathedral towers the bells rang out in tuneful clamor… [Beyond the city] we could discover some black objects against the sky like waving plumes of the knights of old… these waving plumes are ghastly scalps of the fallen enemy, held aloft to the grazing crowd, who yell and cry. They are on poles about ten feet long, carried by victors four abreast. We count them, 78 in number, sixteen of which are women and children. I had of course expected to see some scalps, but here I saw a long black line of terrible looking objects worse by far than I had supposed. The whole head of hair had been in most cases taken.
This campaign will cost the state not less than $50,000 cash outlay [for scalps].

Another photo



and one more



zooming woman with gray hair



Whats your source on this? Something doesnt seem right.

[naiches2]

Jun 16, 2010 8:35:41 GMT -5 perico said:

Whats your source on this? Something doesnt seem right.

Sorry.
Not understand your question.

[perico]

Jun 17, 2010 1:29:01 GMT -5 naiches2 said:

Jun 16, 2010 8:35:41 GMT -5 perico said:

Whats your source on this? Something doesnt seem right.

Sorry.
Not understand your question.

Where did these pictures come from?

[xframe]

Very shocking pictures, made me indeed a bit depressed.
Is it true that all women and children were sold afterwards to become slaves?

Who knows more about the fate of them?

[coeurrouge]

The children were certainly sold to rich mexican family. Young and beautiful women became the non-official second wife of Chihuahuans officials. The other women were put on prostitution and certainly died soon after. On 1884, some of the women were release, among them Siki, step-daughter of Loco, and maybe Huera.

[xframe]

Thank you very much for this info coeurrouge!

I think I did read 20 years ago first time about Victorio's last battle and I never ever in my life expected to see some people on a photo who were involved in that. And I couldn't get the scalps and the desperate glance in all that faces out of my mind the whole afternoon

[johnmartin]

Hello everyone, I am reading this board for a while. Until now Jeroen brought in some questions I posed, but I think it’s time to speak for myself.
James Kaywaykla, in Eve Ball’s In the days of Victorio, tells how his grandmother took care for him while his mother, Gouyan, accompanied her husband on the warpath. They separated at Tres Castillos. Five years later they reunited. His grandmother had escaped slavery, with four other young apache women, in Mexico City, and they had find their way back to their tribal grounds. From there they were transported to San Carlos. See the chapter Return of the women in the mentioned book.
In Eve Ball’s Indeh Eugene Cihuahua tells a story over the escape of his grandmother (mother’s side), and the similarities are such, that must be referring to the same event. According to him. The woman’s name was Francesca. On her way back she was attacked by a mountain lion, which ruined her face. Later, Geronimo toke here as wife, because “such a brave woman deserved a good husband”.
Jeroen guessed that Francesca is the Spanish name for Huera, Mangas wife. So does Sweeney in his latest book (page 368), but I am not convinced. Kaywaykla’s grandmother was already old, and Kaywaykla denotes Nana as his grandpa. Further, in the chapter mentioned, his grandma speaks of one of the other fugitives as Huera. So my guess is that Huera fled under the leadership of Francesca, together with Siki.
Finally, the woman with white hair looks strong. Could that be Francesca? And the woman next to her r right, could that be Siki?

Best regards for all of you, J.

[xframe]

Hey Johnmartin,

very interesting information and thoughts. Thank you for this.
Do you mean this women right hand side?




Cheers

[johnmartin]

Yes x-frame, the woman next to the whit-hair-lady on the zooming in. Could it be Siki?

[xframe]

johnmartin

Unfortunately I'm not able to answer that question. I dunno if there are any pictures of Siki exist. We need to wait what the experts here have to say. I was just asking, because somehow this women reminds me to another one in another picture.

www.fe-records.com/Apaches/apwomen1b.jpg

First look at it the similarity is maybe not that obvious. But forehaed, chin and the way she looks is very similar to the women next to the old Apache from my point of view.
And there are 5 years between this shoots. Would love to get the others opinion on here....

tnx

Frank

[kayitah]

Yes, there are actually a couple of photographs of Siki, like this one from 1898.

Attachments:

[Second]

Hello Naiches, great pictures of the Terrazas prisoners. Where did you get them from. I would like to include it in my book. I have a chapter on Victorio when they were captured by the buffalo soldiers at Rattle Snake Springs. After their release they headed south to Mexico and into the hands of Mexican soldiers at Tres Castillos. This picture will add a lot of richness to that chapter.
Thanks,
Second

[naiches2]

Feb 19, 2011 20:03:05 GMT -5 Second said:

Hello Naiches, great pictures of the Terrazas prisoners. Where did you get them from. I would like to include it in my book. I have a chapter on Victorio when they were captured by the buffalo soldiers at Rattle Snake Springs. After their release they headed south to Mexico and into the hands of Mexican soldiers at Tres Castillos. This picture will add a lot of richness to that chapter.
Thanks,
Second

I took it at Princeton's site. If you need this photos in better quality write me in private message.

[Second]

Hello Naiches, thanks for responding. Yes I will like to have it. How do I write to you in privatel.
Siggy,