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Post by coeurrouge on Jul 18, 2021 10:47:58 GMT -5
Coeurrouge thank you for all the hard work you put in to writing the story of Naiche, really informative en lots of new info. Just a few questions , maybe you will know the answer: - Beneactinay, son-in-law of Kla-esch, do you know which daughter of Kla- esch he was married to? - "However, Grivalja had a ranch with his wife educating a young Chiricahua girl, captured in October 1881 during the Dragoon Mountains’ battle. They liked this adopted child like she was their daughter.Grivalja was agree to act as an intermediary between Chiricahuas and Americans on future peace talkings. The two warriors recognized also the young Chiricahua’s girl their parents thought she was lost forever." Do you know who the Chiricahua girl was and who her natural parents where? Thanks. Hi and thank you for your whishes. I do not know the name of this daughter of Kla-esch. She was certainly born between 1860 and 1865 for a prévious wife than Ilth-gozay. Naiche2 maybe could answer. I could answer about the chiricahua's girl captured in octobre 1881, when I Will come back home. It is in Sweeney's book. |
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Post by gregor on Jul 22, 2021 15:02:03 GMT -5
I only know of the following children of Chihuahua / Kla-esch:
Ramona (1874 - 1949), married Daklugie
Eugene „Hardcase“ Chihuahua (1879-1965)
Tom Chihuahua (1883-1896)
Emily (1889 -1909) Hubbard
Oseola (1892-1901)
Ramona was sent to the Carlisle Indian School in Carlisle, Pennsylvania where she met her future husband. Ramona married Asa Daklugie in 1898. They had six daughters: Maude, Sarah, Lydia, Mona, Maria and Marion.
Emily married about 1905 Teenabikezen / Paul Teenah in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. they had one daughter Edna (Teenah / Comanche)
After Pauls death, she married John Hubbard.
Did Chihuahua have more children / daughters?
Greetings from Germany, Gregor
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Post by naiches2 on Jul 23, 2021 6:04:45 GMT -5
I only know of the following children of Chihuahua / Kla-esch: Ramona (1874 - 1949), married Daklugie Eugene „Hardcase“ Chihuahua (1879-1965) Tom Chihuahua (1883-1896) Emily (1889 -1909) Hubbard Oseola (1892-1901) Ramona was sent to the Carlisle Indian School in Carlisle, Pennsylvania where she met her future husband. Ramona married Asa Daklugie in 1898. They had six daughters: Maude, Sarah, Lydia, Mona, Maria and Marion. Emily married about 1905 Teenabikezen / Paul Teenah in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. they had one daughter Edna (Teenah / Comanche) After Pauls death, she married John Hubbard. Did Chihuahua have more children / daughters? Greetings from Germany, Gregor Chief Chihuahua's children + William Saint Clair (d. 1890) - son of Ilth-gozey Mable (d. May 17, 1895) - daughter of Ilth-gozey |
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Post by coeurrouge on Jul 26, 2021 15:11:15 GMT -5
Coeurrouge thank you for all the hard work you put in to writing the story of Naiche, really informative en lots of new info. Just a few questions , maybe you will know the answer: - Beneactinay, son-in-law of Kla-esch, do you know which daughter of Kla- esch he was married to? - "However, Grivalja had a ranch with his wife educating a young Chiricahua girl, captured in October 1881 during the Dragoon Mountains’ battle. They liked this adopted child like she was their daughter.Grivalja was agree to act as an intermediary between Chiricahuas and Americans on future peace talkings. The two warriors recognized also the young Chiricahua’s girl their parents thought she was lost forever." Do you know who the Chiricahua girl was and who her natural parents where? Thanks. Hi and thank you for your whishes. I do not know the name of this daughter of Kla-esch. She was certainly born between 1860 and 1865 for a prévious wife than Ilth-gozay. Naiche2 maybe could answer. I could answer about the chiricahua's girl captured in octobre 1881, when I Will come back home. It is in Sweeney's book. The girl was a niece of Ramon (by his sister), the shaman of Loco's local group. If the tradition was respected, because in 1881 the Chiricahuas who escaped San Carlos were Bedonkohes, Chokonens and Nednhis, I think Ramon was a bedonkohe or Chokonen by birth (maybe Nednhi). He became a chihenne when he marrid a woman in loco's local group. |
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Post by saskia21 on Aug 1, 2021 6:16:23 GMT -5
Thank you Coeurrouge!
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 4, 2021 3:39:06 GMT -5
Hello, Look what I find in the NARA archive (1900 Fort Sill). Some Chirichuas did not leave San CArlos in 1886. And in 1900 Naiche and others asked the US Army send these kinfolk at Fort Sill with them. In the list some names not know from were related to NAiche. I think I find the names of the the two daughter of Cochise and Nahilzay's sister. Unfortunatly, one name was impossible to read entirely. In the lis there other interesting information of unknown sisters of Geronimo,Chatto and Chihuahua too. Names of Naiches relatives : Half-Sisters : Zh..? and Jas-tasey (the loast married to a Tonto Apache) nephew : Tah-do-tonn (from Jas-tasey I guess) and In-tin-see-zhoos (Hugh Chee's brother) relation : a woman (cousin?) called As-tsi-tah and her son I hope you can see the atatchments Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 4, 2021 15:03:45 GMT -5
Apache Name of Bénito (in the census of Fort Apache in 1889, Roll San Carlos 1887-1890 p.142) = Nedizhah
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 4, 2021 15:16:11 GMT -5
Hello, Look what I find in the NARA archive (1900 Fort Sill). Some Chirichuas did not leave San CArlos in 1886. And in 1900 Naiche and others asked the US Army send these kinfolk at Fort Sill with them. In the list some names not know from were related to NAiche. I think I find the names of the the two daughter of Cochise and Nahilzay's sister. Unfortunatly, one name was impossible to read entirely. In the lis there other interesting information of unknown sisters of Geronimo,Chatto and Chihuahua too. Names of Naiches relatives : Half-Sisters : Zh..? and Jas-tasey (the loast married to a Tonto Apache) nephew : Tah-do-tonn (from Jas-tasey I guess) and In-tin-see-zhoos (Hugh Chee's brother) relation : a woman (cousin?) called As-tsi-tah and her son I hope you can see the atatchments I find this in 1889's Fort apache census. Could she be Naiche's sisters ? to compare on the previous list. I also find a Nahl is zay whose age would crrorespond to the brother in law of Cochise. Was he ? Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Aug 5, 2021 1:17:10 GMT -5
Apache Name of Bénito (in the census of Fort Apache in 1889, Roll San Carlos 1887-1890 p.142) = Nedizhah page 143 |
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Post by naiches2 on Aug 5, 2021 1:40:11 GMT -5
Hi coeurrouge! Names of Naiche's relatives are Zhan-te - sister, Jas-tassy – sister, “married to Tonto Indian”, Tah-do-tonn - nephew, Ah-tsi-tah and her son.
From United States Congressional serial set 4155 v81: ![]()  |
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 5, 2021 2:42:41 GMT -5
Apache Name of Bénito (in the census of Fort Apache in 1889, Roll San Carlos 1887-1890 p.142) = Nedizhah page 143 Thanks for the other message, I think Zhan-te and Jas-tassy were born in the beginning of 1860's. Y yes, I saw p143 Bénito but age (of one of his daughter) and the fact US Army always called the Bedonkohe's Chief "Bonito" and not Bénito, I think She-neah's cousin was Nedizhah. To confirm I need to know how was translate in N'de "To Stir Up". With these lists (prisonners in Mexico and the remnants Chiricahuas in San CArlos) and the census of San CArlos, For Apache, Ojo Caliente and Chiricahua Reservation between 1873 and 1887,I could figure the fate and the relationship for a lot the Chiricahuas living at this time. Again thanks for the name of Cochise's daughter. |
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 5, 2021 6:23:29 GMT -5
Apache Name of Bénito (in the census of Fort Apache in 1889, Roll San Carlos 1887-1890 p.142) = Nedizhah We know Bénito lived after 1900. So Nedizhah had died before 1890, so Naiche2 is right the Apache's name of Bénito was Yo-tah-ah |
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 5, 2021 12:33:01 GMT -5
Hi coeurrouge! Names of Naiche's relatives are Zhan-te - sister, Jas-tassy – sister, “married to Tonto Indian”, Tah-do-tonn - nephew, Ah-tsi-tah and her son.
From United States Congressional serial set 4155 v81: ![]() View AttachmentIn 1991, Cochise's Biography by Sweeney was published for the first time. Thirty years later we find the names of the youngest children of the great chief who survived him. Does anyone known how to contact the author ? |
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Post by naiches2 on Aug 5, 2021 16:02:48 GMT -5
Hi coeurrouge! Names of Naiche's relatives are Zhan-te - sister, Jas-tassy – sister, “married to Tonto Indian”, Tah-do-tonn - nephew, Ah-tsi-tah and her son.
From United States Congressional serial set 4155 v81: ![]() View AttachmentIn 1991, Cochise's Biography by Sweeney was published for the first time. Thirty years later we find the names of the youngest children of the great chief who survived him. Does anyone known how to contact the author ? Sweeney is dead [RIP] |
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 7, 2021 11:09:54 GMT -5
In 1991, Cochise's Biography by Sweeney was published for the first time. Thirty years later we find the names of the youngest children of the great chief who survived him. Does anyone known how to contact the author ? Sweeney is dead [RIP] Very sad news... if I am rright the two half-sisters of Naiche married a White mountain Apache named Si-pah in 1884-85 for Zhan-te and 1886 for Jas-tessay. Ka-chiz, born c.1885 was surely a daughter of Zhan-te about this union. i 1892 Si-pah took a third wife, in 1894 Jas-tessay was no more married to Si-pah and Zhan-te and Ka-chiz did not live with Si-pah in 1895. |
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