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Post by kayitah on Mar 13, 2011 8:02:34 GMT -5
I have been wondering about him as well, but can't come to any conclusion. He's also clearly visible in the "field photographs" where the Chiricahuas are lined up on the range. He may be from Nana's band, who was also there at Canyon de los Embudos.
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Post by coeurrouge on Mar 13, 2011 9:38:04 GMT -5
in first tough, I would say that he looks like the number 12 of Chihuahua's warriors.
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Post by kayitah on Mar 13, 2011 10:23:50 GMT -5
You mean Na-lash (Ni-losh)? Could be. Too bad we don't have higher-resolution images from Fort Marion. Was Jozhe at Canyon de los Embudos? I can't recall where, but I remember seeing him somewhere identified as Ahnandia. While I don't have that impression, I still would like to know others' impression. Attachments:
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Post by jeroen on Mar 13, 2011 12:47:28 GMT -5
I don't think it is Ahnandia... I agree that if anyone, he most looks like number 12, but somehow, I doubt it... A better quality Fort Marion image would certainly help...
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Post by Second on Mar 13, 2011 13:23:12 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I just recvd an ISBN for my book and I have entered the last phase of publishing. My book is titled Second Jumper, searching for his bloodline. Written by Sigfried R. Second-Jumper. It has taken me 5 yrs to write it. It starts out with the surrendering of the Chiricahuas and their journey to Florida as prisoners of war. While in Florida, my great grandparents were separated from the bulk of the Tribe and shipped to Cuba. An event witnessed by other prisoners, and recorded in their oral history and songs. Also recorded and photographed by my family are my great grandparent’s arrival in Cuba, their struggles, sacrifices and accomplishments. Some of my great grandparent’s descendents began migrating to Florida, settling on the outskirts of the Florida Everglades. It was there that I discovered a Miccosukee Indian camp tucked deep in the swamps. Little did I know I was meeting the remnants of the only Unconquered Nation, The Florida Seminoles. In time I learned to master the art of breaking in horses, wrestling alligators, followed by 15 yrs of dancing and singing among them. These events were captured and will be shown with never before seen photographs. Through their encouragement, I along with my family set out on a trip across country, in search of our long lost Apache relatives. A long journey that started in St. Augustine, FL, Oklahoma, Arizona, ended at the Mescalero Apache Reservation in NM. Upon arrival at Mescalero, I was welcomed and accepted by ex-prisoners of war, the Chiricahuas and ultimately my long lost relatives. Unaware of my past tribal history, I was inaugurated into the medicine circle as a singer for the Chiricahua Crown Dancers. It was there, that I have and continue to learn the traditional ways of the Chiricahuas. After many years of loosing members and traditions, we all decided to record and preserve our ways along with our daily activities for future generations. For the first time ever, the reader will enter into the sacred tepee of the Crown dancers and learned what takes place prior to ceremonies. All of it has been done with the consent of all members. When the Seminoles learned that I was recording these stories, they asked me to include theirs as well. Some of these tales and photographs have been kept by members of both groups for decades as family treasures. I am honored to have been trusted to write them as they were told to me. All stories were reviewed by all participants prior to publishing to assure that they are told as they would want their great grandchildren to hear them. Unlike many or most books written about these two groups, this one is done from within. As a result, the participants felt comfortable revealing stories long suppress by fear and mistrust. There is only half a page of references and over 300 pages of the real stories of the Tigers of the Human race, the Chiricahua Apaches and the Only Unconquered Nation, the Florida Seminoles. I have dedicated my book to future Chiricahua and Seminole descendents but it really pertains to all humans as preserving their ancestral ways is just as important. I will keep you all posted as soon as my book is available.
Sincerely, Siggy Jumper
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Post by Second on Mar 13, 2011 13:40:56 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I just recvd an ISBN for my book and I have entered the last phase of publishing. My book is titled Second Jumper, searching for his bloodline. Written by Sigfried R. Second-Jumper. It has taken me 5 yrs to write it. It starts out with the surrendering of the Chiricahuas and their journey to Florida as prisoners of war. While in Florida, my great grandparents were separated from the bulk of the Tribe and shipped to Cuba. An event witnessed by other prisoners, and recorded in their oral history and songs. Also recorded and photographed by my family are my great grandparent’s arrival in Cuba, their struggles, sacrifices and accomplishments. Some of my great grandparent’s descendents began migrating to Florida, settling on the outskirts of the Florida Everglades. It was there that I discovered a Miccosukee Indian camp tucked deep in the swamps. Little did I know I was meeting the remnants of the only Unconquered Nation, The Florida Seminoles. In time I learned to master the art of breaking in horses, wrestling alligators, followed by 15 yrs of dancing and singing among them. These events were captured and will be shown with never before seen photographs. Through their encouragement, I along with my family set out on a trip across country, in search of our long lost Apache relatives. A long journey that started in St. Augustine, FL, Oklahoma, Arizona, ended at the Mescalero Apache Reservation in NM. Upon arrival at Mescalero, I was welcomed and accepted by ex-prisoners of war, the Chiricahuas and ultimately my long lost relatives. Unaware of my past tribal history, I was inaugurated into the medicine circle as a singer for the Chiricahua Crown Dancers. It was there, that I have and continue to learn the traditional ways of the Chiricahuas. After many years of loosing members and traditions, we all decided to record and preserve our ways along with our daily activities for future generations. For the first time ever, the reader will enter into the sacred tepee of the Crown dancers and learned what takes place prior to ceremonies. All of it has been done with the consent of all members. When the Seminoles learned that I was recording these stories, they asked me to include theirs as well. Some of these tales and photographs have been kept by members of both groups for decades as family treasures. I am honored to have been trusted to write them as they were told to me. All stories were reviewed by all participants prior to publishing to assure that they are told as they would want their great grandchildren to hear them. Unlike many or most books written about these two groups, this one is done from within. As a result, the participants felt comfortable revealing stories long suppress by fear and mistrust. There is only half a page of references and over 300 pages of the real stories of the Tigers of the Human race, the Chiricahua Apaches and the Only Unconquered Nation, the Florida Seminoles. I have dedicated my book to future Chiricahua and Seminole descendents but it really pertains to all humans as preserving their ancestral ways is just as important. I will keep you all posted as soon as my book is available.
Sincerely, Siggy Jumper
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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 9, 2011 14:46:21 GMT -5
three new faces. First Chiricahua Princess (photo in 1883-1884), but Who? Cochise's family or Mangas Coloradas'family? Second No-Talq,Chiricahua Man, relative of whom? Third Temas-Eloge?, no high resolution but Chiricahua. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 9, 2011 14:47:15 GMT -5
second photo Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 9, 2011 14:48:19 GMT -5
Sorry for the resolution. If somebody could give information about those three people, thanks. Attachments:
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Post by Mithlo on Apr 9, 2011 18:56:51 GMT -5
Temas-Elo-GE (TSHAI-KLO-Ge), name means "Wood Carrier" or "Carrying Wood", born in 1829 and died here in1909. The second wife of Chief Loco, mother of Dexter Loco, and full sister of Chief Loco's first wife (Tshai-klo-shan)"Burning Wood" or "Wood burned up" born in 1823 and died here in 1895. Sorry for the resolution. If somebody could give information about those three people, thanks.
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Post by bobby on Apr 9, 2011 22:07:27 GMT -5
Two photos of Chish-odl-netln: Attachments:
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Post by bobby on Apr 9, 2011 22:09:49 GMT -5
another: Attachments:
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Post by bobby on Apr 9, 2011 22:13:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure but that's probably Chiz-pah-odlee, Loco’s first and oldest wife. What do you think, Mithlo ? Attachments:
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Post by bobby on Apr 9, 2011 22:14:08 GMT -5
and another photo of her: Attachments:
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Post by Mithlo on Apr 9, 2011 22:34:13 GMT -5
Yep! That's her alright! She and Loco had a daughter, Bey-it-tsun, who was the mother of Talbot Gooday and Mabel Jozhe. Bey-it-tsun died here in 1915. I'm not sure but that's probably Chiz-pah-odlee, Loco’s first and oldest wife. What do you think, Mithlo ?
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