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Post by rodthomas on Jul 20, 2023 13:01:57 GMT -5
Allen, thanks...just saw where I said stainless steel...do not ask me where that came from, its hot... and yes, nickel plated. :-)
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Post by rodthomas on Jul 19, 2023 22:29:10 GMT -5
So, update and sorry for late posting. photograph by Illingworth 1874. Pistols held by Bloody knife, Goose, and Little Sioux were approved for Army use fall 1873. Issued in spring 1874. All three are stainless steel covered as ordered by Custer for gifts. So, it was Bloody knife. all best...Rod...
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Post by rodthomas on Jul 17, 2023 9:57:50 GMT -5
Gary, thanks and glad you enjoyed the story! Hope all is well with you and all best for the rest of the summer!
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Post by rodthomas on Jun 26, 2023 9:44:38 GMT -5
Thanks...hope all is well...
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Post by rodthomas on Apr 24, 2023 16:53:18 GMT -5
Last week I briefed at the Little Big Horn college Cultural Series on White Swan and a second presentation on the six Crow scouts and what happened to them after the battle. Wonderful experience. Relatives of three men were there - Curley, White Man Runs Him, and White Swan. I believe it was taped and should be available from the College Archives shortly. Hope all is well and please have a great day!
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Post by rodthomas on Apr 20, 2023 20:57:05 GMT -5
It does not...and that is why we keep looking for that elusive image...which in all likehood, does not exist. Harken however to Amerlia Earhardt...it is just a matter of time is it not? All best...
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Post by rodthomas on Apr 1, 2023 21:21:47 GMT -5
No problem...Ephriam and I have been great friends for a long, long time. Despite all the "hopes and wishes" and smudges and whatever, there is no validated photograph of Crazy Horse. There is a two page spread sheet handout at the Crazy Horse monument in South Dakota that has several more claimants and the actuality of each for sale in the gift shop. In short...there is actuality and then there is facebook and Instagram and a whole passel of "wannabe's" that confound the history. The "real" stuff is here.
All best and stay well!
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Post by rodthomas on Apr 1, 2023 14:53:46 GMT -5
Hi Wouldn't the NPRR on the tent mean it was taken during the Northern Pacififc Rail Road survey? You would think right? Custer recorded that his friend and USMA classmate then on the NPRR board, gave him the tent. that's the very reason I've always dated it 1873. but, a closer look at the pistols show Colts that were not issued nor sold until 1874. Soooo....Illingworth or Pyrell? Evidence for either attribution. Lee and I are digging deep on this one. Pywell also took bunches of photos that were not part of the "official" Army contract. Crazy. All best! I believe it safe to conclude the photograph is by Illingworth, 1874 Black Hills Expedition. John Doerner, former Chief of Interpretation at the battlefield said people in the photograph were identified by Rhoda Starr Old Scouts Society of White Shield, ND, who identified the Indian Scouts beside her relative Bloody Knife. L-R Bloody Knife, John Burkman (Also thought to be Louis Agard, guide) Lt. Col. G.A. Custer, Private Goose, and Private Little Sioux. . Also believe it safe to conclude the person standing behind Custer is Pvt John Burkman when comparing the attached photo of Burkman provided by Doerner. Note the beard is essentially unchanged. Lastly, the Indian Scouts are armed with the newly issued M1873 Colt Revolvers just received earlier on 1 July 1874 at Ft. Abraham Lincoln (along with the new M1873 Springfield Carbines issued to the 7th Cavalry). Custer delayed the departure to the Black Hills to arm his command with these latest issue arms. We thank John Doerner for first his wonderful service to both sides of the story of the Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument. John was instrumental in the fallen warrior markers now displayed around the battle grounds marking where they fell. Lastly, thanks for his keeping this and loads other information about the people and the event at his fingertips. I also want to thank Lee Noyes and Jim Brust as we teamed up to get to the bottom of just who did take this photo and when. All best everyone...
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Post by rodthomas on Apr 1, 2023 14:30:33 GMT -5
Grahamew, name is right, but he is a Pawnee Crazy Horse Photographs Greasy Grass Dixon.pdf (5.96 MB) Attached article from the Greasy Grass magazine in 1998 by well-known historian Ephriam Dixon. Tells details of this one and several others. Hope all is well.
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Post by rodthomas on Mar 28, 2023 11:15:51 GMT -5
good morning all and hope all is well...so, three Colt .45 Single Shot Army Model 1873 pistols are visible held by Bloody Knife and the other two Arikara scouts (thought to be Goose and Little Sioux). Research shows these weapons, approved for use in the Army, were not issued until 1874. We continue to read diaries, manufacturing records, etc., attempting to pin down information indicating Custer himself ordered 15 of these pistols with nickel plating vice the normal "blueing" and these particular weapons were received at Fort Abraham Lincoln just before the 1874 expedition left. One source claims Custer delayed the start by a day waiting for them to arrive. Yes, the tent logo is still visible from the previous year's expedition and my experience with modern day army tentage is marking such as these don't fade easily.
Please note that while our belief that it is an Illingworth exposure taken in 1874, we continue to search for as close to absolute evidence as possible. Until yesterday I was looking for "the stereograph" but based on additional input from Paul Horsted, this exposure was most likely a single plate shot. Paul also said the copy in the Elizabeth Custer Collection at the Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument is an original print and it is on it that he thinks no stereograph was made.
All best and stay well!
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Post by rodthomas on Mar 10, 2023 10:29:44 GMT -5
Confusing thimgs further... In the Bloody Knife photo, Custer is wearing what seems to be the same jacket and hat he does in the Illingworth photo of him with the dead bear, whereas he seems to have another buckskin jacket in the Pywell photo of him with the dead elk. In terms of his beard and hair, he seems more like the Custer in the Illingworth photo of the dead bear too. Nothing ironclad, obviously, because I'm sure he had a change of duds (and Bloody Knife is dressed differently in the Pywell photos and in the Illingworth one with the dead bear...) We know, I think, from both the Pywell collection and Custer's letters to Libby, that the elk was shot on the 1873 expedition. So that the hat and jacket in the bear photo and in the photo with Bloody Knife and the other men and in the photo of the bear kill, and we know, I think, from records that the bear was killed on the 1874 expedition that both the bear kill and the tent photo were taken on the same expedition - in 1874 by Illingworth. Now, about that pesky Northern Pacific Railroad logo on the tent. We know, I think from records, that the tent was a gift in 1873. Why throw it away if it was still serviceable? Why not save it for another adventure in 1874? And I think that is a likely answer although conclusively in answering our quest. Oh, would you go on an expedition with only one hat and jacket? We have all the reasons to call it a Illingworth but the hunt is still on. All best for the coming Spring!
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Post by rodthomas on Mar 9, 2023 17:22:31 GMT -5
Hi Wouldn't the NPRR on the tent mean it was taken during the Northern Pacififc Rail Road survey? You would think right? Custer recorded that his friend and USMA classmate then on the NPRR board, gave him the tent. that's the very reason I've always dated it 1873. but, a closer look at the pistols show Colts that were not issued nor sold until 1874. Soooo....Illingworth or Pyrell? Evidence for either attribution. Lee and I are digging deep on this one. Pywell also took bunches of photos that were not part of the "official" Army contract. Crazy. All best!
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Post by rodthomas on Mar 9, 2023 16:06:27 GMT -5
Isn't it Goose standing behind Custer? Have to admit, I've only ever seen this attributed to Illingworth, but having just looked through the Illingworth photos in Custer's Prelude to Glory - it's not there, nor is it listed on the back of his stereo cards. And... the printed text on the tent behind the group says NPRR, so... 1873 and a Pywell image. Thanks and I've always had him identified as Goose. Others apparently think he is Long Soldier also in a Goff photo from Fort Lincoln. He's on the porch. I've seen all the Illingworth images at South Dakota State Historical Society collection, supposedly all from the Black Hills expedition. I learned yesterday that along with the "official" expedition photos, Illingworth took other photos and had them for sale. It is not listed on anything in the jSDSHS records. I've seen almost all the Pywell images from the National Archives and not in those either! More to follow! Attachments:
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Post by rodthomas on Mar 9, 2023 13:57:05 GMT -5
The reason I'm researching along with Lee Noyes is that I have had this identified for twenty years as by Pywell on the 1873 Yellowstone Expedition. Lee has had it for the same timeframe as by Illingworth on the 1874 Black Hills expedition. Our research so far has shown equal attribution to either photographer. As far as I know, this and the photo with De Frane are the only images of Little Sioux. I'm trying to locate as many photos of each of the men in the tent photo to help with identification. It was recently published in a Custer buff group newsletter conjecturing that the upright individual behind Custer was Curley the Crow scout. I kid you not.
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Post by rodthomas on Mar 9, 2023 13:51:33 GMT -5
gregor, thanks...that is the image being researched. the image of who I think is Little Sioux is with a person identified as "Mr. De Frane." Two people in the image and it has small holes in it. The caption says "Bloody Knife" but that is not him. Thanks... Attachments:
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