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Post by jinlian on Jul 25, 2008 4:32:39 GMT -5
Thanks, Miyelo, I know Prairie Edge and their store and was just going to order it there (I wish I could buy more there, but can't for the very same reason you mentioned). I wouldn't mind about one or two historical blurs (have to stand more when I'm watching or reading the news, and luckily bloopers like the one about Wounded Knee are easy to spot) as I'm more interested in the Two Bulls family interview. The documentary runs about 30 minute, while the book has 85 pages : I'm still going for the DVD, as I prefer to hear Lakota people's voice. Btw, I think you should contact them about the issue of your footage. At least, they may add one or two thank you lines in the acknowledgements part.
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Post by jinlian on Jul 23, 2008 16:20:58 GMT -5
Hi Annie, just in case, as most probably you already know this one: Carlisle, 1880
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Post by jinlian on Jul 21, 2008 16:58:42 GMT -5
Thank you for the links, Annie...I have this picture of Crow Dog and his family: His wife should the first standing from left. Here's another Lakota Hunkpapa woman: Martina Blue Earth, last wife of Chief Gall. Chief Gall fell in love with Martina, who had been the wife of his comrade Iron Cloud, in 1885. Gall was already married with Stand in Center, a woman older than him, but would have taken Martina as second wife. He then sought advice from agent McLaughlin, telling him that "his heart was good, but sad because he was in love". McLaughlin however discouraged him from marrying Martina and Gall apparently gave up his project. He and Martina eventually got officially married on November 12 1894, two months before Gall 's death. At the time, they had a 9 years old daughter, the evidence that, even without the authorities' consent, they were already married according the Lakota custom. .
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Post by jinlian on Jul 21, 2008 13:39:46 GMT -5
Happy birthday, girls!
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Post by jinlian on Jul 19, 2008 1:23:13 GMT -5
Hi Gordie, and thanks for the info about the Di Silvestro book (I was trying to find a better resolution of that photo!). If you look at the other group picture taken supposedly on that same day, where Jack Red Cloud is sitting between He Dog and Plenty Horses, you'll see he's wearing a different suit. Also, the man picture posted here looks considerably older than Jack (who at the time was in his early thirties).
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Post by jinlian on Jul 18, 2008 13:41:40 GMT -5
In a picture of the Plenty Horse trial's witness posted by Grahame in another thread, there's a man who looks exactly like Red Shirt: (of course, we're talking of the man sitting on the right)I don' t remember having read anywhere about Red Shirt being a witness in that trial, but he might have been; btw, in Robert Utley's excellent article about the trial, he says that Woman Dress was a witness too, even if he doesn't appear in any of the pictures taken afterwards.
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Post by jinlian on Jul 18, 2008 10:09:07 GMT -5
Found this picture of two of Chief Red Cloud's daughters in their late years:
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Post by jinlian on Jul 16, 2008 16:20:49 GMT -5
Hi Gary and thank you very much for the information - in fact, I was wondering if Tangle Hair wasn't in fact one of the Northern Cheyenne who were moved first to Pine Ridge and then transferred to the Montana Agency in 1883 (as it happened, if I'm not mistaken, with Wild Hog and his family) I think this is the picture you're referring to: Thanks again
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Post by jinlian on Jul 16, 2008 9:22:17 GMT -5
Most direct sources report that Pretty Owl was Chief Red Cloud's only wife; however, as reported by Mrs. James Cook in J. Olson Red Cloud and the Sioux Problem, it would seem that in his younger days the Oglala chief took other 5 (!) wives. In his biography of Red Cloud, R. Larson reports the data of a probate document of the South Dakota State Historic Society in which are mentioned the names of Red Cloud and Pretty Owl's children: Jack Red Cloud (their only son), War Bonnet, Leading Woman, Plenty Horses, Charges at Him and Tells Him. In Red Cloud's autobiography instead we find just Jack's and 4 daughters' names: Wears War Bonnet aka Julia Long Soldier, Libbie Slow Bear, Fanny Chase Alone and Suzie Kills Above. This would leave out 2 or 3 daughters: the wife of One Stab (reported in Fought With Custer: The Story of Sergeant Windolph, Last Survivor of the Little Big Horn), the wife of Big Road (reported in Mike Stevens' website), "Louisa", who was the wife of the half-blood Pete Richard (a key witness in the Plenty Horses trial) and maybe, if Judge Eli Ricker's report is correct, one of the wives of Chief American Horse. I guess only the Red Cloud family can shed some light on this.
Almost all of our sources agree that Pretty Owl had quite a strong personality: even if Mari Sandoz's description of her being " not silent as a winter mole" and the hint that "many a man planted his mocassin firm and long on the warpath because there was no peace in his lodge" sound quite unfair, she had indeed a strong personality and didn't seem ready to share her famous husband with other women. As she said to an old friend, Charles P. Jordan: "When he [Red Cloud] was a young man, I was very jealous of him and used to watch him very closely for fear some other woman would win him from me". Julia McGillycuddy, daughter of the V.T. McGillycuddy, who was agent at Pine Ridge for 7 years, reports in her father's biography that in the 1880s Red Cloud did attempt to take a younger wife, but was prevented by Pretty Owl's threat to kill the intruder - anyway, Julia McGillycuddy is far from being a reliable source. What's more, at one point both Red Cloud and his wife were baptized Catholics and this would have been a serious obstacle to a polygamous household. Years later, painter Elbridge Bourbank said that at the beginning he had a very hard time in persuading Chief Red Cloud to pose for him and then he "discovered that at Red Cloud's home, his wife was the boss. Any time the Indian agent or officials wanted something of Red Cloud, they went to his wife." and remarked "Had I known this, I might have secured his portrait much sooner." It was also true that Pretty Owl had quite an influence on her husband in political matters: Jeffrey Ostler reports that in 1888 Pine Ridge Gallagher, believing that Red Cloud was reluctant to sign the Sioux bill because his wife opposed it, had W.J. Godfrey paid more a visit to the couple in the attempt of persuading them to accept that resolution, but failed. When Red Cloud, in the Ghost Dance's final days (January 1891) was abducted by Two Strike's band, rumors said that it was Pretty Owl who decided to join the hostiles "declaring that she would take the warpath alone, even if her husband wouldn't join her", but this seems to be a groundless story.
Pretty Owl is buried next to her husband in Pine Ridge's Holy Rosary Cemetery.
Other information about her and Chief Red Cloud's immediate family would be, of course, greatly appreciated.
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Post by jinlian on Jul 16, 2008 8:31:13 GMT -5
Thank you, the Three Bears you're referring to is the same individual I mentioned in my first posting and who was a member of the 1877 delegation. Too young to be identified with the Sitting Bear of the True Oglala/Oglala Proper.
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Post by jinlian on Jul 16, 2008 4:04:29 GMT -5
Hi Clw, of course, in time I'll finish posting all the information about Chief Red Cloud's wife. I have quite a good number of photos featuring Lakota women, and I agree it would be great to have them gathered in a single thread (even if sometimes it is difficult to get the "stories behind them"). We should ask Wakalapi if he doesn't mind changing the thread's name into "Lakota women". In the Italian forum I was speaking of, we had a whole discussion about stories of Native women - we had Pretty Owl, Black Shawl, Lozen, Dilchthe ...I was just trying to collect some information about the Crow Woman Chief. I hope to finish it soon, and to post it here too in the Apsalooka section.
About Lakota women, I think our Native friends here could help us to tell more of their stories.
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Post by jinlian on Jul 15, 2008 16:23:48 GMT -5
Hi Wakalapi, I see you've changed the thread's heading into "Hunkpapa or Oglala women", so I think you may appreciate some pictures and information about Chief Red Cloud's wife, Pretty Owl aka Lean Woman aka Mary Good Road, who was the only wife Chief Red Cloud ever acknowledged and had a lifelong influence on him. A few months ago, I collected some info into and shaped them into a lenghty discussion for an Italian forum - if you're interested , I can track my sources back and post them here. In the meanwhile, here are some basic info: from: freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/tiyo2-p/p4.htmMary Good Road - b. 1835- d. July 22 1940 (did she die at 105?) membership: Bad Face Band of the Oglala Lakota. Mary Good Road was also known as Pretty Woman and Pretty Owl.3 Mary was born at Lakota Territory in 1835. She was the daughter of Hollow Bear and Good Owl. As of circa 1850,her married name was Red Cloud. She married Chief Red Cloud at near Raw Hide Buttes, Lakota Territory, circa 1850. Mary, as Chief Red Cloud's wife, resided with him, at North Platte River Region, Lakota Territory, after 1865. She was listed as Chief Red Cloud's wife in a census on June 30, 1904 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wakpamini District, Shannon Co., South Dakota. Mary died on July 22, 1940 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, South Dakota, USA. She and Chief Red Cloud raised 4 or 5 daughters and one son. More details about the dramatic beginning of their marriage can be found in Red Cloud's autobiography and are also reported on this webpage: mhs.mt.gov/pub/press/redcloudex.aspHere are the pictures of Pretty Owl/Good Road I've managed to find so far:
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Post by jinlian on Jul 15, 2008 5:30:32 GMT -5
By the way, does anyone know where Tangle Hair resided after being released in 1879?
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Post by jinlian on Jul 14, 2008 11:47:27 GMT -5
I didn't know Trisha was a member of this board as well - hadn't the time to get to know her, but read the sad news about her this morning on LBH. I renew my condolences to her family and friends; hope that her novel will be published in the next future. It will be the best way to remember her.
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Post by jinlian on Jul 13, 2008 7:26:26 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer, Tatanka. It is possible that the Three Bears who died after LBH was in fact Tangle Hair's father, since he - if the translation of his statement was correct - said generically "a noted Sioux" . The possibility of the True Oglala Sitting Bear being at LBH is in fact intriguing since, as I've said before, I don't know anything of his activities after 1871. He would have been, at the time, in his middle fifties (at least), but there were also elderly warriors at LBH, Inkpaduta to name but one....
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