chi1
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Cochise
Feb 17, 2015 19:29:42 GMT -5
Post by chi1 on Feb 17, 2015 19:29:42 GMT -5
To reinforce theory COERROUGE genealogy research refer to Cochise as Goci
II) Goci (1810-08.06.1874)
Try to pronounce Goci on English and Spanish and add a pour spanish with athabascan accent and you get close to Coche or Jose.
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chi1
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Cochise
Feb 17, 2015 14:12:59 GMT -5
Post by chi1 on Feb 17, 2015 14:12:59 GMT -5
Let me share with you "Cochise genealogical hypothesis" under investigation on Janos Presidio records and church baptismal records. Take it with the appropriate reserves. Some historians mention that Cochise was son of Pizago Cabezon mainly Edwin Sweeny, though the latter might be his father in law, remember that Apache warriors who married the daughters of chiefs went to the new wife's clan and generally became warriors of the most recently joined clan and eventually they could became leaders, it helps to genetic diversity. For example, Mangas Coloradas was Bedonkohe and became Mimbreño leader (Warm Springs - Chihene) if Pizago Cabezon was not his father then: who was his father? The theory points to Juan Jose Compa son of "El Compa", Juan Jose was educated at Janos, as Apache leader he applied a peaceful and conciliatory leadership, it was not very well accepted by the impulsive nature of his fellows and times of violence faced, Juan Jose Compa was killed in the ambush of Santa Rita; according to tradition, preferably children bore the names of parents, hence Children of Juan Jose Compa expected that one was Juan "Pluma Blanca" or "Apache Juan" (White Feather) and the other Jose (Coche nickname used today in Sonora), it is unclear whether or Kino (Coyuntura- Koyuntura) and Marcelo were Pisago Cabezon's brothers or sons, however on Janos Presidio (Garrison) records Marcelo appears in the list of survivors in Santa Rita, however Juan Jose and Juan Diego appear among those killed . Cochise, lived in Janos Chihuahua and Fronteras Sonora to about 1820, where he learned Spanish as a second language, remember that Hermenegildo Grijalva (Merejildo) captive of Miguel Narbona, became familiar with Cochise considering him as his son, Merejildo was interlocutor between Cochise and Michael Steck towards representatives of the US Government, translations were from the Athabaskan and Spanish to English. By phonetic translations from Spanish to English, the children of Cochise were most likely Jose Ines and Jose Ignacio with diminutives used today as Neche and Tacho, however read from Spanish by an American sound like Naiche and Tascha "Taza" Please comment!
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Jan 9, 2015 15:58:07 GMT -5
We all know the famous "Victorio" photograph. It's one of the first you get to know as soon as you start to delve into Apache history and culture. But is it really the great Chihenne chief? Doubts have arose, or have always been there. I first saw the second image in James L. Haley's very fine book "Apaches - A History and Culture Portrait". It was identified as a "recently discovered photograph of Victorio". And yes, it looks like the man on the first picture. At Siris it's labelled "Portrait of Scout n.d.". So photographer and date are unknown. When we look at the third image, it becomes clear that it shows the same man as on the second image. But if the man on the second image is indeed Victorio (and not a scout), does the third image make the impression of a Warms Springs Chiricahua chief? To me he looks like a Western Apache or a Yavapai, not like a Chiricahua. More important is that Victorio died in the Tres Castillos fight in 1880. The third photo was taken by Baker & Johnston in 1881, at the same occasion when Dutchy and Alchesay also posed for their image. The conclusion is that the third man can't be Victorio. So if it's the same man as on the first photograph, the famous "Victorio" photo doesn't show the prominent chief... Please share your thoughts with me... Attachments:
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Jan 6, 2015 16:36:18 GMT -5
Bedonkohe Ndendahe band or called the Bronco apache. The hacienda del Carmen which is close to Janos was where many captives were kept per mexican historical records. Alas many of my papers have been lost thus I too would like to research this as a project. In the 1970's I had the opt to travel down there and meet many now mexicanos whose kinship was Nde. Cuz good to hear from you and happy new year. Item of note Dasodahae married a mexican girl named Maria, in which he had fight and kill two of his brother in laws for having dared such a marriage. On this link you can find Janos Presidio Records, for some reason records are on Texas www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utlac/00083/lac-00083p1.html Regards
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Dec 31, 2014 19:18:34 GMT -5
VERY Interesting!!!! Tell us more! Any photo's?? Have often wondered why there isn't more information/photo's on many of our people down across the border during the 1870's and 1880's and after. Mithlo, no much photos of our people on the mexican side for two main reasons, 1.-Chihuahua and Sonora goverments want to annihilate Nde, 2.- Photography technology was availabe mainly on the US side or on the Center of Mexico, was very few cameras on the north of Mexico, this remains up to the Mexican Revolution from 1910 trough 1917 where most of pictures belong to US studios. I will be looking for photos I have seen on books. Regards
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Dec 29, 2014 18:15:12 GMT -5
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Dec 29, 2014 17:37:55 GMT -5
Natiza, it will be an interesting research, since there is not much data for those families that didn't get into the rolls, and even the ones on the rolls have dificulties to trace ancestry, two facts, on Chihuahua state there was not only Nednhi, Nednhi were around Janos area and down to Carrizal-Villa Ahumada, but there were Chihene or mimbreños from Ascencion to Muleros (Paso del Norte-Juarez) south to Laguna de Guzman, Mashgale or Nenesgane or Natages better known as Mezcaleros from Juarez to Ojinaga, and near to Coahuila there were Lipan. Another fact is intermarriage, For example Mangas Coloradas was Chihene But marriages and lead a band of ChoK'onen as well as Cochise who was Chiricahua and lead for sometime a Bedonkohe; Geronimo married a Nednhi Woman, so dont enclosure your search on only on Naii' Nde or Nednhi. You can research on church baptizm records and you may try an ADN test on Heritage or Ancestry but it will only confirm Native American and maybe Ndeh heritage but will be hard to go down to the "Clan" There are some battles records where it mention about how many captives were taken you can try to identify the approximate date when your matriarch was taken. Good Luck
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Oct 23, 2014 13:42:09 GMT -5
A very peculiar eyes, would be gray or light color, perhaps a wound in one eye? This would be the apache that travel to Washintong and a doctor install a glass eye which surprised many? or some affectation of hyperthyroidism?
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Oct 15, 2014 14:40:55 GMT -5
I wonder what terms the Apache have to differentiate between different groups like Mexicans, Zuni, Navajo, Anglo-Americans. Do the Apache have an equivalent term to Refer to the USA or Mexico as a whole? Small contribution: Mexicans were called Nakaye by Ndeh....spanish pronunciation. Also from Lutenant Britton Davis memories also mention how apache refer to white man as pindah-lickoyee
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