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Post by chicheman on Jul 5, 2012 17:32:27 GMT -5
I can help out with that, Cinemo, have that book here - Kiowa Ethongeography.
In that book all Kiowa terms are after Parker P. MCKenzie´s Kiowa Orthography.
I must say that I think the one used by Alicia Keahbone Gonzales (Thaum Khoiye Tdoen Gyah - Beginning Kiowa Language) sounds more practical and easier to me).
However, in Kiowa Ethnogeography, there is an indication on Trailing-the-enemy like that
E àun ha fàui qop / Trailing the enemy Mountain, Unap Mountain.
I m not able to write it completetly in the Parker P. McKenzie Orthography, but nearly so.
That mountain is named after Eàunhafàui (Trailing the enemy or Unap, whose allotment was one mile nortwest.
Kiowa Ethnogeography page 259
Im not an expert in Kiowa Language, but as letters are described in the Pronounication guide, the name should probably sound very likely as Eonha pah or Eonha pawi
qop is mountain in Kiowa
The letter / f / is explained like being a soft / p / sound
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Post by chicheman on Jul 4, 2012 15:51:18 GMT -5
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Post by chicheman on Jul 1, 2012 14:40:53 GMT -5
That book sounds very interesting, was ordering today a copy. So far I have only Wallace and Hoebel, Rollings and Fehrenbach in my collection about Comanches. I´m real sceptic about Fehrenbach though. I learned only recently about tk´s valuable books, glad to get a copy now of the one mentioned by cinemo.
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 28, 2012 18:31:47 GMT -5
tkavanagh:
All right, I understand, thanks for the offer to simply use Tom or tk or Esimotostaivo. I´ll do that.
I was just going back to the photo in that book I mentioned. It shows James Auchiah, so the description goes, leading a ( white) horse with a warbonnet attached to the saddle (looking very similar like the one shown in the photo Dietmar was posting). James Auchiah himself is wearing another warbonnet looking the same style. Well, that photo doesn´t allow to do much or detailed comparison with the other I think, the bonnet not to well shown. Courtesy Jane Pattie mentioned. So it would be most interesting to learn what you can find out in OK. Thanks in advance.
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 28, 2012 12:06:38 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for the comment Dr. Kavanagh, that makes sense of course what you´re saying. I was just mentioning what´s in the books, Kiowa Voices I + II. Beside that, it might also be the case, as you were suggesting, that it may well be a replica of the original warbonnet, - still Satanta´s bonnet perhaps of a native point of view. However, I´m here at my working place and don´t have the books here, but I think the warbonnet in the photo in my book looks quite similar like the one on the photo Dietmar was posting.
I´m not sure how to post photos here, but I could send it to Dietmar perhaps by e-mail. Only there is a note below the photo, saying it is courtesy of a museum (if I have right in mind right now). So what about copyright when posting here ?
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 26, 2012 17:49:42 GMT -5
Here something I found in Kiowa Voices II (Maurice Boyd) :
Satanta´s oldes son, Tsa´laute (Cry of the wild goose), had ridden as a warrior with his father. He served later with the Indian Police at the Kiowa Agency. The other two boys, Odle-pah (Buffalo bird) and Auchiah (Looks in a Ute lodge), both joined the army at Fort Sill, serving in Troop L of the 7th U.S. Cavalry under Capt. H.L. Scott and Col. Kellog, the Post Commander. They served five years and were honorably discharged. When they left army life, they presented their father´s sun shield to Capt. Scott. Satanta had carried it in more than one hundred fights.
Mark Auchiah, one of Satanta´s sons, was a swift runner who once outran a fast horse. While a soldier at Fort Sill (1891 to 1896), he was on special patrol during the noon opening of the Cheyenne and Arapaho Reservation on May 22, 1892. Auchiah died on Febr. 27, 1935, at the age of 69 in his home at Saddle Mountain. Auchiah´s son was the famous Kiowa Artist James Auchiah. (page 232)
Kiowa Voices I (Maurice Boyd) :
Satanta´s Burial at Fort Sill. James Auchiah, grandson of Satanta, carries Satanta´s original ceremonial warbonnet on the horse´s saddle at the reburial ceremony of Satanta in Chieftain Cemetery, Fort Sill on June 8, 1963. The original burial site was the prison cemetery at Huntsville, Texas, nearly ninety years earlier. (p. 73)
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 18, 2012 6:53:11 GMT -5
Interview with Nora Thompson Dean (Touching Leaves Woman),
Dewey Herald Record, p. 12, August 17, 1983. Nora Thompson Dean, Dewey, full blood Delaware (Lenape) explains the move of her people into the Cherokee Nation and their disappointment at not having land of their own. She says very soon after their arrival and settlement, mostly in what is now Washington County, a young man, the only son of his widowed mother, went to see about their horse and failed to return.
A search was begun and he was found dead with two Osage arrows crossed on his chest. This was a sign they were willing to go on the warpath if the Delaware wanted to do so.
This was a most serious development. Only a few years prior to this time it would have meant immediate war between the tribes. It could not be ignored by Lenape chiefs. Discussions were held with the Osage. It appeared the Delaware boy might have been killed and the challenge of the crossed arrows made without the knowledge of Osage leaders. The Osage leaders offered to give a Smoke for the Delawares.
The narrator is so familiar with tribal history that she speaks in the first person of events as she continues, " We were so weary with fighting. We had been oppressed by the whites, and in all the moves we had made across the country other tribes had always fought with us. There were less than 1,000 of us left and we were tired of fighting. We just wanted to live in peace, so our chiefs accepted the Osage offer of a smoke.
The smoke was a ceremony where leaders of both tribes smoked the peace pipe in the center of a very large circle made up of the members of the two groups. Then to indicate their willingness to accept the decision of their chief and live at peace with each other, individuals crossed the circle delivering a gift to a member of the other tribe. These gifts were not small items, but articles of great value. Touching Leaves added, "My father had a good saddle horse he rode for years that was a gift of an Osage at a smoke."
The ceremonies lasted all day and all night, and always included very large dinners, smoking the peace pipe, gift giving, and a little bit of dancing. The next year the Delawares gave the Smoke for the Osages, and prepared all the food and gave the gifts. The Delaware-Osage Smokes continued annually, with the tribes alternating in hosting the other, ending when Mrs. Dean was very small. "I'm not sure of the year the last Smoke was held,"she says, "But I remember it was in the bend of Post Oak Creek near where the highway now crosses it north of Dewey."
(Since this smokes were "ending when Mrs.Dean was very small", they must have lasted well into the early 1900´s, because Mrs. Dean was born in 1907. chicheman)
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Post by chicheman on Jun 17, 2012 13:43:37 GMT -5
Interesting photo´s of Wild Hog and his son, Dietmar.
I always wondered if his name, Wild Hog, was given Bird Wild Hog´s father by white people, or if that was his real Cheyenne name ? Since "wild hogs"were not native to the US originally I think and not on the Plains at all probably.
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 17, 2012 11:04:24 GMT -5
Hello Kingsley,
thanks a lot for sharing that source, I was just reading the entire article. (Hope it is ok to call you just Kingsley, like you signed). Very interesting to learn about what happend at that time. I read the Tetons even thought to include the Yanktons in the reprisals if neccessary, tough they are close relatives. Well, I understand the given reasons as mentioned in the article. Now I noticed that we find two statements,one that the Sioux killed Big Robber, while second also the Shoshone say that Washakie killed him. Maybe hard to find out who really did, after almost 150 years.
Best regards,
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 16, 2012 18:03:08 GMT -5
Hallo Dietmar,
I was recalling this story being also printed in a publication by the Shoshone Tribal Cultural Center (Fort Washakie, WY) in July 1994, under the title "Crowheart Butte Battle 1866". Title of the booklet is "Washakie 1798 - 1900", telling the known facts of the life of Chief Washakie.
Interesting additional information to find in that booklet:
In victory, Chief Washakie was so impressed with the bravery of the Crow Chief that he had cut out the heart of his antagonist and displayed it on the end of his lance until after the dance of victory held by the Shoshone warriors that night.
One of the Crow girls (Aha-why-per) captured during this battle was later to become the wife of Chief Washakie.
Just something I was remembering regarding that story.
Mr. Bray and Carlo,
thanks for that very interesting informations on the Crow - Lakota relations of that time period. I was following it and was trying to find out in which posting to find more details on the killing of that Crow woman by a Minneconjou warrior, that being apparently the starting point of the renewed hostilities among the two tribes. I did find only brief mention of that incident, so seemingly I overlooked it somehow. Do we have some details as for why this Lakota man was killing this Crow woman, or how that happend ?
Thanks and greetings from Germany
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 7, 2012 12:54:08 GMT -5
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Post by chicheman on Jun 7, 2012 12:17:41 GMT -5
charlie wrote: In 25 December 1868 he fought against colonel Evans in the Soldier Spring (Oklahoma) battle;
>> By then Woman´s Heart was rushing to aid, to help the Comanches who have been attacked by Col. Evans, from his village a short distance from that of the Comanches.
tkavanagh wrote: Both the Kiowas and the Comanches (and KA) are among of the few NA groups who managed to come out of the census/allottment process with personal/family names bearing some (often minimal) linguistic relation to their native language names, albeit usually mangled by the Texican speaking-Agency employees. For my work with Numu (aka 'Comanche') names, since these are the spellings of record, they are the ones I generally use. I do make an attempt to give an etymology such as the one you gave. I then add the disclaimer that I will use the "agency spellings" . There are several competing orthographies out there, both linguistic/professional/techical and 'homegrown' (e.g., Parker MacKenzie's for Kiowa and Sam DeVenney's for Numutekwa) such that use of the 'agency spellings' is probably best for non-technical contexts such as this.
tk
>> Thanks again, Mr. Kavanagh, for sharing these informations, thoughts and advice ! Now when you did mention it, that KCA people often still have surnames bearing some kind of linguistic relation in their native languages, I recall a meeting I had with a Kiowa man in 1992. I recall him explaining me about his own surname, still sounding Kiowa, though not completely accurate in his language since agency employees probably wrote it down the way they could understand and hear the name. The man I met was Dennis Belindo, a respected elder and talented artist in his tribe. I´ll post some Link on him separately.
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 4, 2012 11:40:32 GMT -5
Thanks also to you, Dietmar, for this additional information. Some of the photos were unknown to me. So we have now a date when he died. Looking at the photo´s I think Woman´s Heart might have been around 60 years old around 1880. So maybe born around 1820. Just a guess of me. What do you think ?
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 4, 2012 11:36:05 GMT -5
Thanks a lot Mr. Kavanagh,
that sheds at least some light on the whereabouts of Women´s Heart. Thanks for your help !
As for the Kiowa name spelling, I was looking up the Kiowa words as given in the modern spelling for the Language. I found "ma:yi" (woman) and also "mahyen" (woman) and "tèn" (heart). I don´t know if we can combine these words correctly into "Ma:yi-tèn" or "Mahyen-tèn", to get the right word for the name. We would need a Kiowa speaker to be sure I think.
chicheman
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Post by chicheman on Jun 3, 2012 13:56:58 GMT -5
The Delawares, one of the replaced tribes of eastern origin, soon came into contact with western tribes on the Plains, when settling in Missouri and and later in Kansas around 1830.
When the Delawares resided in Missouri, their hunters had become aquainted with the plains country, but when they settled in Kansas they went even farther west to pursue the buffaloe herds. As soon as they began to hunt in that part of their reserve called the outlet, they ran into trouble with the Pawnee, a resident tribe angered by the appearance of strange Indians whose language and customs differed from their own. In an effort to repulse the strangers, the Pawnee organized war parties and ambushed the Delaware hunters. According to their custom, the Delawares were forced to retaliate to save their honor, and injury and death resulted on both sides., a repetition of the same kind of trouble the Delawares had experienced with the Osages in Missouri. As an act of vengeance, Chief Anderson´s son, the war chief Captain Suwaunock led a party of Delaware warriors to the main Pawnee town on the Platte River in what is now Nebraska, and destroyed all the dwellings. The United States sent commissioners to assuage the jealousies and bring the warring tribes together to halt hostilities. John Treat Irving, Jr., the twenty-year-old nephew of Washington Irving was present with Indian Commissioner Henry L. Ellsworth and others on November 12, 1833. when peace was concluded between the Pawnee on one side, and the Delawares and other tribes on the other. In describing this conference, Irving wrote that the Delaware warriors were "glittering" with trinkets; their silver ornaments glistening in the sunshine, and their gay ribbands fluttering in the wind. They were a gaudy, effeminate-looking race, yet beneath all their frippery of dress lurked that indomitable courage, and thirst for glory, which not even intemperance, and their intercourse with the whites could destroy." (Sounds like kind of typical prejudice of 19th Cent. white observers). Behind the warriors came Captain Suwaunock and the Delaware delegation took their seats opposite the Pawnee Chiefs and councilors, the members of both groups wearing grim expressions, all fearful of compromising their dignity as proud warriors. When it came to his turn to speak, Suwaunock made no apology for his attack on the villages of the enemy. "The Pawnee met my young men upon the hunt and slew them," he said through the translator. "I have had my revenge. Let them look at their town. I found it filled with lodges: I left it a heap of ashes."
Although the meeting resulted in a peace agreement between the two tribes, sporadic killings and horse thievery continued on.
(C.A. Weslager, The Delaware Indians - A History, 1972 / 2000)
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