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Post by jeroen on Dec 12, 2009 13:34:29 GMT -5
Yes Dietmar, I agree, do you mean this Barry photo?
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Post by jeroen on Jan 6, 2010 8:18:41 GMT -5
I found this rather unusual image, identified as the death mask of Sitting Bull. I recall reading ( I think in The lance and the shield, life and times of Sitting Bull by Robert Utley) that, after he was shot dead, Sitting Bull's face was badly beaten up by the angry surviving police men. The death mask, if indeed Sitting Bull's, shows no such marks. Does anybody if Sitting Bull's corpse was indeed mutilated by the police, or is that just yet another myth?
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Post by jeroen on Jan 7, 2010 5:27:01 GMT -5
This is yet another variation of the 1885 Montreal series (don't have a better image):
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Post by Dietmar on Jan 9, 2010 6:01:32 GMT -5
Jeroen,
as far as I know the story about the mutilation is correct. Several sources say it, the newest one I know of is Ernie LaPointe´s book:
"The relatives of the policemen killed during the failed attempt had beaten him virtually unrecognizable." (page 108, Sitting Bull - His Life and Legacy, 2009)
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Post by grahamew on Jan 10, 2010 14:36:45 GMT -5
John/Young Sitting Bull
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Post by Dietmar on Jan 11, 2010 13:03:00 GMT -5
Another mystery...
Okay, let´s try to summarize it. Sitting Bull had these "sons" in his family after he returned from Canada: - Crowfoot, son who died in 1890 - John Sitting Bull aka Refuses Them, deaf-mute stepson - Henry Little Soldier, stepson - William Sitting Bull aka Runs Away From, son (his twin brother died early)
There was also his hunka brother Little Assiniboine/Jumping Bull, who died 1890.
In Heski´s book about D.F. Barry it is stated, perhaps by Barry´s own notes, that the man in Jeroen´s post above is the deaf-mute John Sitting Bull. I´m not sure that the new photo posted by Grahame shows the same man. Nor is the man we had as Louis Sitting Bull (see Spotted Eagle thread) the same man. So who were they??
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Post by gregor on Jan 12, 2010 15:02:11 GMT -5
Hi Dietmar, hi grahemew, I'm not so sure about the guy in grahemew's post "John/Young Sitting Bull". I believe the image was sold at Cowan's. On front of the photograph we have the caption "Young Sitting Bull, Sioux Chief". On the back there was allegedly a handwritten notation " Willie, deaf & dumb". I dont think, that this man is John Sitting Bull. I asked Ernie LaPointe regarding this photo and he confirmed that it wasn't John. More likely it is William Sitting Bull. Regarding John Sitting Bull, look at my post on the Sans Arc / Spotted Eagle thread.
CU Gregor
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Post by Dietmar on Jan 12, 2010 15:37:24 GMT -5
Okay, Gregor, but then "Willie, deaf & dumb" is an error, isn´t it? It was John who was the deaf-mute.
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Post by gregor on Jan 12, 2010 16:09:11 GMT -5
Hi Dietmar,
yes, I agree "Willie, deaf & dumb" could be an error. Someone read "Young Sitting Bull" on the photograph and concluded it was John Sitting Bull / Deaf & Dumb or Deefy. Unless William had also hearing problems, what we don't know.
CU
Gregor
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Post by jeroen on Feb 19, 2010 10:18:42 GMT -5
I found this one labeled 'grand heir to Sitting Bull'... any ideas who this fellow might be?
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Post by jayman on Mar 3, 2010 13:14:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the wonderful archive of Sitting Bull Images. I thought to submit my own contribution; An oil painting done from life in 1882, presumably at Fort Buford. The painting was done by H.H.Cross who painted many western figures of the times. It bears Sitting Bull's signature in black paint in the upper left corner as well as Cross' signature and short bio of sitting Bull, the date 1882 and "Painted From Life" in the upper right. I've owned this painting since 1968 having gotten it from a dealer who purportedly purchased it from the estate of a railroad man who got it directly from SB during one of his trips on the railroad. It may have been the Chicago Milwaukee & St. Paul or possibly The Chicago Northwestern. If anyone would have any thoughts or info on SB's travels during that time, I'd love to put some meat on the bones of the story. Jayman
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Post by jayman on Mar 3, 2010 13:42:16 GMT -5
My apologies again, apparently my photo attachment is too large, I'll try another. Jayman
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Post by grahamew on Mar 3, 2010 15:41:46 GMT -5
Cross' paintings and the claims he made for them are rather suspect, to put it mildly.
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Post by jayman on Mar 3, 2010 16:15:28 GMT -5
Apparently, this one is not suspect to the American Portrait Gallery of the Smithsonian who recorded it for the national collection and the Gilcrease Institute who had this painting for ten years on loan as well as Rudolph wunderlich who appraised it in 1990. Question: is 'Expert" a status one achieves through credentials or quantity of postings?
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Post by grahamew on Mar 3, 2010 17:10:42 GMT -5
Perhaps the shortness of my post came across as nagative and taking a swipe at your integrity: we don't do that here and this wasn't my intention, but the accuracy of a lot of Cross' works is questionable. Google Cross and look at his Indian paintings and tell me if they look accurate. If you look at photos in the SIRIS collection or in the Denver Public Library there are a fair few that are inaccurately identified. Just because the institution is renowned doesn't mean the people working for it are always right. Have you ever seen John Hauser's Spotted Tail? It's been up for auction lately, but you don't have to be an expert to see it's Two Strike. Maybe Cross did paint this SB from life (have you seen his other SB? There's one more I know of, maybe more); maybe you've got a real gem. I hope you have. However, to take one example, his '1880' portrait of Quanah Parker looks suspiciously like it's based on a photo taken around 1890 and his 1876 painting of Crazy Horse doesn't bear thinking about.
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