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Post by grahamew on Apr 13, 2015 13:45:39 GMT -5
I thought that too. I've looked through my Ponca photos and haven't been able to match him - but that may say more about the limited number of photos I have!
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gleb
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Post by gleb on Apr 15, 2015 16:23:58 GMT -5
The comparison of one of the last CDV and the CDV labelled as Cheyennes. Looks more Pawnee to me.
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Post by grahamew on Apr 16, 2015 4:09:49 GMT -5
Excellent comparison.
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Post by grahamew on Nov 9, 2015 16:43:37 GMT -5
Three photos from one lot on an auction site. No context or time frame. The text on the reverse has been 'deciphered' as - Ki-Kiou-Kalitoo Star of the Cheyenne Indians I wonder now if the pencilled reference isn't to the portrait of the young woman on the back...
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Post by grahamew on Nov 11, 2015 15:45:03 GMT -5
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Post by Dietmar on Feb 14, 2016 6:30:46 GMT -5
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 8, 2016 10:03:14 GMT -5
Got this request from AT member: I'm writing an essay on the Miwatanni warrior society, I'm a member of your chatgroup,but don't knoow how to post pictures. Can anyone help me identifie any of these people. supposedly a yankton Oglala, the Miwatani is supposedly Kills a Hundred "okawinge kte" (son of red dog?) picture by stillwel according to caption (same man) same background. Thanks Eric additional pictures:
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Post by grahamew on Oct 8, 2016 11:38:57 GMT -5
Love that last photo. Don't think I've seen the backdrop before. Wasn't Stilwell a collector rather than a photographer (though there are plenty of photos doing the rounds that are attributed to him)? Here's a much larger version of one of the photos Guessing the photo is 1900-ish or after and that isn't THE Swift Bear. There's some info on the photo (and another like it) here: nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/bysearchterm?keyword=Ponca+Tribe and the date is given as 1902
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eric
New Member
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Post by eric on Oct 8, 2016 12:40:39 GMT -5
I'm writing the essay, the third man from the left is called chief Whale, one of Lowie's informants on the Eastern Sioux Miwatanni was called Whale, the person next to him(a swift bear) wears what appears to be a Miwatanni owl feather Bonnet.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 8, 2016 16:38:13 GMT -5
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Post by Historian on Oct 17, 2016 9:29:37 GMT -5
Love that last photo. Don't think I've seen the backdrop before. Wasn't Stilwell a collector rather than a photographer (though there are plenty of photos doing the rounds that are attributed to him)? Here's a much larger version of one of the photos Guessing the photo is 1900-ish or after and that isn't THE Swift Bear. There's some info on the photo (and another like it) here: nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/bysearchterm?keyword=Ponca+Tribe and the date is given as 1902 As I understand it, this photo was taken on the Santee Sioux (aka Santee Dakota) Reservation near Bloomfield, Nebraska in 1902. The identifications are given as "1. Col. Toney, D.I. Scout" or (Colonel Toney, Indian Scout?); "2. Sam Howley, Santee"; "3. David Whale, Santee; "4. Chief Swift Bear, Spotted Tail" or (Chief Swift Bear, Sicangu Lakota from Spotted Tail Agency); "5. Dr. W.S. Smysor, Windsor, Ill." or Dr. W.S. Smysor from Windsor, Illinois); "6. Chief White Shirt, Ponco" or (Chief White Shirt, Northern Ponca);, "7. Nice Voice Eagle, Rose Bud" or (Good Voice Eagle, Sicangu Lakota from Rosebud Agency); "8. Rev. W.W. Hamm, R.I., Ill." or (Reverend W.W. Hamm from Rock Island, Illinois); "9. Chief Stone Arrow, Ponco" or (Chief Stone Arrow, Northern Ponca); "10. Capt. B.J. Young, Chief of ID Police, Santee" or (Captain Benjamin Joseph Young, Santee and Chief of Indian Police on the Santee Reservation).
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 19, 2016 8:46:07 GMT -5
From the picture with the Miwatani horseman posted above we can at least identify two men from another picture I found at the British Museum: Looks Twice (at left! not right) and Long Dog photograph of a cutting from a newspaper or magazine of a portrait of two Sioux Chiefs, Look Twice and Long Dog, posing outdoors; they both wear their hair in braids and feather headdress; Look Twice wears fringed hide shirt and leggings with moccasins and holds a pouch; Long Dog wears cloth shirt and leggings with moccasins, and holds a staff with eagle feathers on it; they both stand on a woven blanket;[description from British Museum site] The British Museum got a third view from the same scene: Looks Twice and two other men, one of them possibly Slow Bull So the most likely order would be, from left to right in front row: Kills A Hundred, Looks Twice, unidentified (or Slow Bull), Slow Bull (or unidentified), Long Dog
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 20, 2016 3:47:12 GMT -5
As many folks will know Kills A Hundred was the son of Red Dog, the chief of the Oyuhpe band of the Oglala Lakota. He was born about 1852-53. Very interesting that he seems to have been an eminent member of the Miwatani society. In fact this set of photographs seems to depict mainly Oyuhpe people, the Oglala band that settled round the modern town of Manderson, South Dakota. Looks Twice is listed in the Oyuhpe band census in 1890, as the same age as Kills A Hundred -- so he too was born about 1853. These photos therefore would seem to be either side of 1900? Any clues as to date and provenance? Looks Twice I understand to have been the son -- maybe that's the 'son' in some wider Lakota sense? I don't know for sure -- of Foam. We've discussed this family in a separate thread --- see amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1196/shoot-ghost-pumpkin-hill-tiwaheWhich man is thought to be Slow Bull? He too was an Oyuhpe headman, coming from a long line bearing that name. Maybe we could pull these photos (by Stilwell?) together, Dietmar?
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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 20, 2016 4:20:30 GMT -5
On Looks Twice, see also the Fire Thunder thread within the Oglala folder, amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1006/fire-thunderI suggested there that his father Foam and Foam's brother Owl Eagle belonged in the 1870s to Iron Shell's band of Brule (Sicangu) -- the Orphans band, and were living at Spotted Tail Agency on White river. Another brother of Foam's, Shoots at Ghost, was associated with the Sans Arcs, which seems to be where these three brothers originally came from. Consistent with everything we have at the moment, I suggest that they belonged to the Makaha tiyospaye, a sub-band of Sans Arc origin that aligned to the larger Oyuhpe band in the early 19th c. Then Foam and Owl Eagle made marriages into Iron Shell's band of Brule about 1850, nb soon after the cholera epidemic that we know took special toll of Iron Shell's band. Looks Twice was born into this band about 1852 or '53. Rechecking censuses, Looks Twice appears first in the Spotted Tail Agency census of January 1875. He would have been about twenty-two years old at this stage. He is listed with a family of 6 people, comprising himself, one wife, and two sons and two daughters. He is listed in the June 1877 Spotted Tail Agency census as See Two, this time with a family of four: himself, his wife, and one son and one daughter. The family is listed among the Brule (that is the Southern Brules, bands hunting south of the Platte before the reservation, PLUS the Orphans band, which usually hunted north of the Platte). Then See Two is listed in a party of people from Spotted Tail which was officially transferred to the Red Cloud Agency, October 25, 1877, nb when the agencies were being moved to new (temporary) locations on the Missouri river. His father Foam is also on the list, which seems to core on families connected to interpreter Joseph Bissonette, who moved permanently to the Red Cloud or Oglala agency at this time. Over time the Foam-Shoots At Ghost-Looks Twice families realigned themselves to the Oyuhpe band, among whom they had enduring family connections.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 21, 2016 7:58:41 GMT -5
Here´s again Andre´s version of the picture from another thread: If you look closely you can see the names printed on the photograph. The same names were listed on an ebay page a while ago: A RARE PHOTO OF FOUR NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN CHIEFS KILLS A HUNDRED LOOKS TWICE SLOW BULL (OGLALA) LONG DOG (DAKOTA) No photographer or date is given. Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/735/men-miwatani-headdress#ixzz4NivyFVt3So we still have the problem that we have four names, but five chiefs plus the man with the Miwatani headress on horseback. Stilwell was more a collector and seller than a photographer himself. So the picture may well have been taken by another photographer.
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