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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:19:21 GMT -5
Hump and High Backbone have been discussed in several threads. It is time to establish a special thread about them.
There are some confusions or debates regarding Hump and High Backbone regarding: 1. Name (Hump vs. High Backbone) 2. Age (born ca. 1810 or ca. 1835) 3. Tribe affiliation (Mnikhówozu vs. Oglala) 4. Different persons carrying the same name 5. Who was his father (Black Bull or someone else)
Below are some earlier discussions about Hump and High Backbone.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:19:57 GMT -5
Here is a short refreshment regarding Hump vs. High Backbone to explain what Hump I am talking about in the post above. From Ella Deloria's interview with Fast Whirlwind: "Some of the foremost Teton chiefs in my young manhood were Hump, (Cakuhu Wakatuya--Back--high); Crazy Horse (Tasuke Witko); Hitukasa Waste (Good Weasel); Tasuke Kokipapi (They fear his horses), all these four were Oglala; Cahahake (Spinal column); He Wazica (Single Horn)-- these two were M nikawozu (Planters-by-the-Water); and Tatakiyotako (Sitting Bull) and Pizi (Gall; Pi--liver; zi-yellow) were Hukpapaya." To my best of knowledge, Fast Whirlwind is the only Lakota source from the Buffalo era who gives SIMULTANEOUSLY both male Lakota names in question and to what part of Lakota they belonged to. Therefore, Fast Whirlwind is the key to unravel the confusion between Hump and High Backbone. According to Fast Whirlwind above: 1. Cahahake / Čhaŋĥáĥake was Mnikhówozu 2. Cakuhu Wakatuya / Čhaŋkĥáhu Waŋkáta was Oglala Today we use the following English names: 1. Hump for Cahahake / Čhaŋĥáĥake) 2. High Backbone for Cakuhu Wakatuya / Čhaŋkĥáhu Waŋkáta Based on Fast Whirlwind, it is clear it was the Oglala Cakuhu Wakatuya = High Backbone who fought with Crazy Horse and Good Weasel against the Shoshones, where Cakuhu Wakatuya was killed. It is confirmed by Alexander Charging Crow in his manuscript written in both Lakota and English, that it was Cakuhu Wakatuya who fought against and was killed by Shoshones. In his manuscript in Lakota and English, Alex Charging Crow gives the name for High Backbone as "C'aŋk'u Waŋkatuya", "Back--high" and "High Breast". Alexander Charging Crow was one of those who took part in the fight where High Backbone was killed by Shoshones. So he knows what he is talking about. Mainly based on Fast Whirlwind and to some extent based on Alex Charging Crow, this is certain to be correct: 1. There were 2 individuals with 2 related names, that is Hump (Cahahake) and High Backbone (Cakuhu Wakatuya) 2. Hump belonged to Mnikhówozu 3. High Backbone belonged to Oglala and was killed by Shoshones Then, it seems we can add the following information: 1. The Mnikhówozu Hump belonged to Shunka Yuta Shni tiyoshpaye. 2. The Oglála High Backbone belonged to They Wear Garter Snakes for Earrings = Watersnake Earrings tiyoshpaye 3. Fast Whirlwind mentioned together Hump (Cahahake) and Lone Horn (He Wazica) as the foremost Mnikhówozu chiefs, so it is tempting to assume they were of the same generation. High Backbone is often mentioned at the same time as Crazy Horse by various sources, so it is tempting to assume they were of the same generation. Based on the known age of Crazy Horse and Lone Horn, it seems that the Mnikhówozu Hump was older than the Oglala High Backbone, roughly a generation older.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:20:41 GMT -5
Somewhere... admittedly, possibly Sandoz, there is a reference to Crazy Horse being a 'cub' (I think) in comparison to High Backbone's 'bear', thus implying that the High Backbone/Hump that Crazy Horse rode with was older - or would he have been associated with both thanks to his links with the Mnikhówozu and the stories have become conflated over time...? Having said all that, I'm also pretty sure I've read testimony in which the informant said that High Backbone was a similar age to Crazy Horse in response to questions about their realtionship. Again, can't remember where, but I'd guess Hinman. So how does the Hump photographed by Huffman fit in all of this? He's clearly a reasonably young man. The son of the Mnikhówozu Hump who was Lone Horn's generation? And this is the man who became a scout and then later a Ghost Dancer?
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:21:26 GMT -5
Somewhere... admittedly, possibly Sandoz, there is a reference to Crazy Horse being a 'cub' (I think) in comparison to High Backbone's 'bear', thus implying that the High Backbone/Hump that Crazy Horse rode with was older - or would he have been associated with both thanks to his links with the Mnikhówozu and the stories have become conflated over time...? Ooops. That was Kingsley's book and he has him about five years older... but a Mnikhówozu
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:22:02 GMT -5
Hreinn, Fast Whirlwind's comment that High Backbone was an Oglala is interesting, as he is only ever listed among the Miniconjous. As both men are often mixed up I did a summary of both a few years back, based on available sources: High BackboneMiniconjou, born c. 1830-1835. (Hadn't seen Fast Whirlwind's interview before, calling him an Oglala.) Father was Humpback (don't know the Lakota name, but could be the same as High Backbone. Sometimes translated as Broken Back, he was a Miniconjou headman, killed in 1848 in a fight with the Crows.) High Backbone was a mentor to Crazy Horse (who was 5-10 years his junior), and a prominent warrior & war leader in the 1860's. He was the Miniconjou blotahunka ataya (head war leader) in 1866 when he helped set the strategy for the Fetterman Fight. Died in the fall of 1870 in battle with the Shoshones. HumpMiniconjou, born ca. 1848. He was definitely not a generation older than High Backbone, but actually c. 15 years younger. According to his son John Hump his father was born to a Cheyenne mother, and a Lakota father named Iron Bull (also known by his nickname Mashes His Nails), although Walter Camp names his father Dogskin Necklace. Hump witnessed his father being killed by Crows in the early 1870's. Hump may have been related to High Backbone, possibly his younger nephew, but I have not found any definitive confirmation on that. Hump became a prominent Miniconjou leader in the 1870s and an important ally of Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull during the Great Sioux War. His younger brother was Iron Thunder.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:22:46 GMT -5
HumpMiniconjou, born ca. 1848. He was definitely not a generation older than High Backbone, but actually c. 15 years younger. According to his son John Hump his father was born to a Cheyenne mother, and a Lakota father named Iron Bull (also known by his nickname Mashes His Nails), although Walter Camp names his father Dogskin Necklace. Hump witnessed his father being killed by Crows in the early 1870's. Hump may have been related to High Backbone, possibly his younger nephew, but I have not found any definitive confirmation on that. Hump became a prominent Miniconjou leader in the 1870s and an important ally of Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull during the Great Sioux War. His younger brother was Iron Thunder. So is THIS is the man photographed by Huffman after he surrendered and became a scout and is the same fellow who later became a prominent Ghost Dance leader? Not sure which one he's meant to be here (a photo said to be of Hump and his headmen, though they look geared up for a dance). Also said to be present are Big Road, Tall Bear, White Magpie, Wolf Robe, and Wolf Voice. Your mileage may vary.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:24:36 GMT -5
grahamew, yes the man photographed by Huffman with his two wives is Hump (c. 1847-1908), the Miniconjou (Eat No Dogs band) leader who surrendered at Ft Keogh (1877) and was later prominent at Cheyenne River Agency. His band settled at the confluence of Cheyenne river and Cherry creek. A number of people at Pine Ridge and Cheyenne River have told me his father was called Mashes His Nail. Perhaps that was a nickname for Dogskin Necklace, the name given Hump's father in one of the Walter Camp documents. I think it's correct that High Backbone was an uncle (in some sense) to Hump. High Backbone belonged to the Waglezaowin band of Miniconjou. It's important to know that this band formed (in 1827) out of marriages linking the Wakpokiyan band to the Oglala Oyuhpe band. (The Oyuhpe realigned to the Miniconjou across the period 1767-1835.) The Oyuhpe and Waglezaowin remained in extremely close connection right through the 19th century. The father and namesake of Oyuhpe chief Big Road, for instance, an important Sun Dance leader, belonged to the Waglezaowin. He moved to rejoin relatives in the Oyuhpe in 1839. A sub-band called Sunkonazhin (Horse Corral) was cored on Crazy Horse's uncles (mother's 'brothers') Spotted Crow and Ashes. It continued to move between the Oyuhpe and Waglezaowin into the 1870s. Anyway, this network of contacts is why some people said High Backbone was an Oglala, others a Miniconjou. His family is said to have had deeper (18th c.) origins among both the Oyuhpe and the Wazhazha. He was grandson to the Brule head chief Black Bull (c. 1755-1815). His father (named Humpback in the Lone Dog group of winter counts) is the man who killed the Kiowa in the horse trade fair in 1814.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:25:08 GMT -5
Carlo, Fast Whirlwind is the anchor, i.e. sets the frame of reference. There is so much confusion regarding Hump and High Backbone, that references are of limited value unless they give the Lakota name. It was Kingsley who drew the attention to the Fast Whirlwind interview in a post in January 2014 in the thread "Wagleza-owin (Gartersnake Earring) band". amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1981/wagleza-owin-gartersnake-earring-band#ixzz3QEvW2AtOKingsley touched on this topic in his book: "The death of High Backbone is noted, interestingly, in several Oglala and Brule, but no Miniconjou, winter counts." [Kingsley Bray: "Crazy Horse - A Lakota Life" (2006), p.430, fn35] The Oglala He Dog answered a question which included the Oglala connection of High Backbone, see Hinman's interview with He Dog in July 13, 1930: "Question: Dr. Charles Eastman, whose Indian name is "Ohiyesa", has written in a book that Crazy Horse, when he was a young man, was intimate friends with a famous Oglala war chief called Hump or High Back Bone. We wonder if He Dog can tell us anything about this man and his friendship with Crazy Horse." "Answer: High Back Bone and Crazy Horse were sworn friends and went on n early all their war expeditions together, and the one was as great a war leader as the other. The first and last time these two disagreed was the time when High Back Bone got killed." Paul, Eli R. (editor): "The Nebraska Indian Wars Reader 1865-1877", University of Nebraska Press (1998), pages 185-186. Today, I am inclined to the following: In 1857, Crazy Horse fought against Atsinas with his Mnikhówozu mentor Hump (Cahahake / Čhaŋĥáĥake) In 1870, Crazy Horse fought against Shoshones with his Oglala friend High Backbone (Cakuhu Wakatuya / Čhaŋkĥáhu Waŋkáta) Grahame, The original source for the phrase "the grizzly and his cup" is the book by Charles A. Eastman (Ohiyesa); "Indian Heroes and Great Chieftains" (1918), page 90.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:25:53 GMT -5
A number of people at Pine Ridge and Cheyenne River have told me his father was called Mashes His Nail. Perhaps that was a nickname for Dogskin Necklace, the name given Hump's father in one of the Walter Camp documents. Kingsley, I have a brief interview with Hump's son John Hump (b. 1904) in which he states that his father was born to Iron Bull, also known as Mashes His Nails, and Ziti, later Mrs. Iron Bull (1827-1917). Perhaps Iron Bull had two nicknames, one of which was Dogskin Necklace.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:26:35 GMT -5
What does High Backbone refer to? Perhaps because of the confusion with Hump I'd always thought it referred to the back of a buffalo but in this Brule winter count, we see an entry for (if I've worked this out correctly...) 1870/1(?) the following picture: Though the date may be off by a year, it seems too much of a coincidence that the drawing depicts a man dressed in the same cape and headgear combination that High Backbone wears in Bad Heart Bull's drawings, but the name glyph seems to be a wolf or fox with a high (or humped) back...
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:30:27 GMT -5
Crazy Horse`s maternal grandfather Black Buffalo (or Black Bull) (b.1760, d. 1816) also married to Good Voice Woman and together they had 1 son High Back Bone (aka Hump) (b.1811, d.1870) [1]. High Back Bone married to 4 Cheyenne sisters. High Back Bone had at least 4 children, that is Little Crow, Hump 2, High Back Bone and Two Cows. One can not help noticing that High Back Bone was at the age of 59 when he died in a battle with Crazy Horse in 1870. Which is a rather high age for a warrior in any culture in any era.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:32:09 GMT -5
One can not help noticing that High Back Bone was at the age of 59 when he died in a battle with Crazy Horse in 1870. Which is a rather high age for a warrior in any culture in any era. Valid observation, Hreinn. Based on his war record, High Backbone was in the prime of his warrior career in the 1860's, in wars with both the US and other tribes. This would most likely establish his age between 25-35 years old in this period and at his death in 1870 he would have been no older than 35-40. That is why I find it difficult to accept High Backbone was born in 1811. I know High Backbone's birth year and parentage has been discussed at length already here and elsewhere, but if he was born two decades later he obviously could not have been a son of Black Bull. Carlo
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:32:42 GMT -5
What do we know about this tiyoshpaye? Leonard Little Finger told me in September last year that he thought it was an offshoot from the Wakpokiyan band, and that he remembers being told it was composed of "fierce warriors regarded as 'protectors' of the tribe." He thought the band had some special connection to the Saone. An Oglala called Fast Whirlwind gave Ella Deloria a list of Oglala tiyoshpaye, that actually included the "Wagleza-owi - - They Wear Garter snakes for earrings". He remarks in the same statements that High Backbone, Crazy Horse's famous Miniconjou mentor, killed by the Shoshones in 1870, was an Oglala. So, maybe we should think of Wagleza-owin as 'floating' between both tribal divisions (with a special Oyuhpe connection among the Oglala I would think), and that High Backbone may have been among its important leaders.
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:33:13 GMT -5
This what I wrote in my article published last year in the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly "The Wakpokiyan and Watersnake Earrings bands were possibly sister bands formed in the eighteenth century, corresponding to the “Ta Coropa” band of Truteau (1795). There seem to be early links between the leading families of each band, connecting both through the Black Bull family of the Brulés. The Watersnake Earrings may be associated with the leadership of Cut Ear, fl. c. 1790–1831. Little Crow emerged as chief in the 1830s. He may be the Little Crow noted as living at the Ward & Guerrier post near Fort Laramie, winter 1854–55, and identified as [Seth] “Ward’s Indian” (New York Times, March 22, 1855); still active in 1865, he was reportedly 75 years old. High Backbone, about 1830/35–1870, the mentor of Crazy Horse, evidently belonged to the Watersnake Earrings. Possibly his putative father Humpback (killed by Crows 1848) was a brother of Little Crow. High Backbone’s “nephews” (possibly sons of his sister, married into the Eat No Dogs band) included the brothers Hump and Little Crow II. In the generation 1850–75 the band was sequentially identified with chiefs Brave Bear, Little Ground (Little Skunk?), and Flying By. The latter went to Canada with Sitting Bull’s people in spring 1877, but disappears from the record before the surrenders of 1880–81."
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Post by hreinn on Sept 9, 2019 13:41:15 GMT -5
The following is from the "other side" of this website, see: www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/HighBackbone2.htmHigh Backbone Canku Wakatuya Miniconjou The war comrade and mentor of Crazy Horse was called High Backbone (Canku Wakatuya). Reckonings of his age differ: Charles Eastman stated that High Backbone was significantly older than Crazy Horse, while He Dog told Eleanor Hinman that the two men were about the same age. I suspect that High Backbone was maybe five-ten years older than Crazy Horse, born in the first half of the 1830s: that's a big differential in the crucial boyhood years, when we know that High Backbone was a teacher and mentor to Crazy Horse, less important in adult life. This High Backbone was the strategic leader in the Fetterman battle, 1866. Indeed, one contemporary document indicates that he was the Miniconjou head chief that year. What I suspect that reflects is that in this crisis year over the Bozeman Trail issue the Miniconjou civil chiefs were 'pushed aside' and a war leadership placed in charge of tribal affairs. A similar process placed Red Cloud at the head of Northern Oglala affairs that year. High Backbone remained a prominent war leader (blotahunka) among the Miniconjou. He was killed by the Shoshones in fall 1870. Just what the relationship was between High Backbone and the younger man Hump (Chahahake), born ca. 1847, is not entirely clear. Ten or fifteen years ago, Cheyenne River elders told me that they thought there was an uncle-nephew relationship there. Some people today state that it's a straight father-son situation, but the year-spans don't fit. Hump's father was named as Dogskin Necklace in one of the Walter Camp interviews. My own informants named the father as Mashes His Nail, which sounds to me like a classic nickname. This Hump was the one who fought at the Little Bighorn, surrendered to Miles, etc. I'm not convinced that One Horn/Lone Horn and High Backbone were brothers in the Euro-American sense. — Kingsley Bray www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/HighBackbone2.htm
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