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Post by kingsleybray on Jan 12, 2014 15:09:23 GMT -5
What do we know about this tiyoshpaye? Leonard Little Finger told me in September last year that he thought it was an offshoot from the Wakpokiyan band, and that he remembers being told it was composed of "fierce warriors regarded as 'protectors' of the tribe." He thought the band had some special connection to the Saone.
An Oglala called Fast Whirlwind gave Ella Deloria a list of Oglala tiyoshpaye, that actually included the "Wagleza-owi - - They Wear Garter snakes for earrings". He remarks in the same statements that High Backbone, Crazy Horse's famous Miniconjou mentor, killed by the Shoshones in 1870, was an Oglala.
So, maybe we should think of Wagleza-owin as 'floating' between both tribal divisions (with a special Oyuhpe connection among the Oglala I would think), and that High Backbone may have been among its important leaders.
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Post by kingsleybray on Jan 12, 2014 15:18:00 GMT -5
This what I wrote in my article published last year in the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly
"The Wakpokiyan and Watersnake Earrings bands were possibly sister bands formed in the eighteenth century, corresponding to the “Ta Coropa” band of Truteau (1795). There seem to be early links between the leading families of each band, connecting both through the Black Bull family of the Brulés. The Watersnake Earrings may be associated with the leadership of Cut Ear, fl. c. 1790–1831. Little Crow emerged as chief in the 1830s. He may be the Little Crow noted as living at the Ward & Guerrier post near Fort Laramie, winter 1854–55, and identified as [Seth] “Ward’s Indian” (New York Times, March 22, 1855); still active in 1865, he was reportedly 75 years old. High Backbone, about 1830/35–1870, the mentor of Crazy Horse, evidently belonged to the Watersnake Earrings. Possibly his putative father Humpback (killed by Crows 1848) was a brother of Little Crow. High Backbone’s “nephews” (possibly sons of his sister, married into the Eat No Dogs band) included the brothers Hump and Little Crow II. In the generation 1850–75 the band was sequentially identified with chiefs Brave Bear, Little Ground (Little Skunk?), and Flying By. The latter went to Canada with Sitting Bull’s people in spring 1877, but disappears from the record before the surrenders of 1880–81."
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Post by kingsleybray on Jan 12, 2014 18:17:32 GMT -5
Lucille Runs After told me in 2004 that Dog Backbone, the Miniconjou warrior killed on Reno Hill on June 26, 1876, belonged to the Wagleza-owin, and that he was the father of Harry Kingman who lived well into the 20th century in the Four Bears community on the Cheyenne River Res.
Another family belonging to the band was the Cooks, also known as the Black Horse family. It is believed that it was a woman from this family who lived with the wolves, in the well-known Lakota legend. This supposedly happened when she escaped from captivity among the Crows and walked back east. She reportedly lived with the wolves somewhere in the Cherry Creek drainage. Later she became a famous medicine woman.
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 17, 2015 8:44:06 GMT -5
According to contacts at Pine Ridge, the Wagleza-owin band was formed in the 1820s, created from marriages linking the Miniconjou Wakpokiyan band to the Oglala Oyuhpe band. One of its early leaders was High Backbone I, the father of Crazy Horse's comrade and mentor. They always had strong Oglala connections through the Oyuhpe, and the band itself was sometimes considered Oglala (e.g. by Ella Deloria and her informant Fast Whirlwind). High Backbone the younger (killed 1870) is also often considered an Oglala. This therefore was a band that floated btw the two tribal circles, Miniconjou and Oglala.
In 1835 they attended the great Oglala Sun Dance near Ft Laramie, restoring to the Oglalas an important sacred bundle that they had recaptured from the Pawnees. I have more details, but want to respect my sources on this matter. This was the Sun Dance in which the Oyuhpes, after almost 70 years of associating primarily with the Miniconjou, returned to the Oglala hoop.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 9:19:30 GMT -5
After contacts on the Pine Ridge Wagleza-owin band in the 1820s was founded by marriages linking the Miniconjou Wakpokiyan band with the Oglala Oyuhpe band created. One of its early leaders was high backbone I, the father of Crazy Horse comrades and mentor. They always had strong Oglala connections through the Oyuhpe, and the band itself was sometimes referred to as Oglala (eg by Ella Deloria and their informants Fast whirlwind). High backbone of the younger (murdered 1870) is often called Oglala. So that was a band by the way, the two tribal groups Miniconjou and Oglala floated. In 1835 she participated in the great Oglala Sun Dance near Fort Laramie, restoring the Oglalas an important sacred bundle, which they had retaken by the Pawnee. I have more information to obtain, want my sources on this topic, but respect. This was the sun dance in which the Oyuhpes back after nearly 70 years of association primarily with the Miniconjou, the Oglala tires. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 9:27:25 GMT -5
Ich hätte da mal eine Frage an Herrn Bray zu hoch Backbone DM Mentor von Crazy Horse. Hohe Backbone ist ja im Jahr 1870 im Beisein von Crazy Horse ums Leben gekommen.Es gab da Aber noch jemanden Mit Dem Namen Hohe Backbone, der an der Little Big Horn Schlacht beteiligt war, und Auch ein Verhandlungen in Washington teilgenommen hat. Um wen handelt es Sich beim Zweiten Namen. Berthold
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Post by Dietmar on Apr 20, 2015 9:35:18 GMT -5
Sorry Berthold,
Kingsley Bray speaks English, like most people of this forum. Please refer to him and others in English, please.
You can use a online translator if you need.
Thank you
Dietmar
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Post by hreinn on Jul 23, 2020 16:07:05 GMT -5
From this thread: The Watersnake Earrings may be associated with the leadership of Cut Ear, fl. c. 1790–1831. From the thread Lone Horn's children: Roman Nose's father was Fast Antelope, and his paternal grandfather was Cut Ear, prominent as a Miniconjou leader across the period c. 1790-1830. This family formed the core leadership of a sub-band or wicoti called Maza Su, literally Iron Seed, but meaning a musket ball. This was a sub-band within the Wakpokiyan band, which was led across the period 1850-75 by Lone Horn. Are we tallking about the same Cut Ear in both quotations ? If so, it could indicate it was Cut Ear or his son or daughter who went away from Wakpokiyan tiyoshpaye and formed Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye. Since Roman Nose was always associated with Lone Horn and Wakpokiyan, it was not Fast Antelope (Cut Ear's son, Roman Nose's father) who went away. Is it known who among the original Wakpokiyan tiyoshpaye formed the Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye ? Are the names of Cut Ear's children and grandchildren known ? (outside of Fast Antelope - Roman Nose) Were Spotted Crow and Ashes sons or grandsons of Cut Ear ? Was High Backbone grandson of Cut Ear ? What was the origin of Sunkonazhin (Horse Corral) wicoti ? Did Sunkonazhin wicoti originate among Wakpokiyan or Oyuhpe ? or was it a new wicoti formed within Wagleza Owin ? What other wicoti formed Wagleza Owin ? |
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Post by frenchman on Jul 24, 2020 8:23:41 GMT -5
Hi Hreinn , First I thank you one more time for what you know ! concerning your question Spotted Crow and Ashes (and their brother Bull Head ) were the sons of Corn (Unkce-Yuta band )and the Crazy Horse's uncles (half brothers of his step mothers )! It was in their camp that Crazy Horse took refuge to cure the wound inflicted by No Water after the Black Buffalo woman episode . Spotted Crow and Ashes were the heart of the wicoti called Sunkanazhin So , Cut Ear could ( possibly ) be only their grand father (through one of Corn's spouse )  |
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Post by hreinn on Jul 24, 2020 11:07:46 GMT -5
The question if Spotted Crow and Ashes were related to Cut Ear came about because Kingsley Bray mentioned that Spotted Crow and Ashes belonged to Sunkonazhin wicoti which was part of Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye. A sub-band called Sunkonazhin (Horse Corral) was cored on Crazy Horse's uncles (mother's 'brothers') Spotted Crow and Ashes. It continued to move between the Oyuhpe and Waglezaowin into the 1870s. That is a different Mnikhówozu tiyoshpaye than Corn belonged to. Since Corn belonged to Unkche Yuta (Dung Eaters) tiyoshpaye. That is: Spotted Crow + Ashes (Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye) vs. Corn (Unkche Yuta tiyoshpaye). So I was wondering if Kingsley Bray had a new information regarding Spotted Crow and Ashes. Which would perhaps rule out that Spotted Crow and Ashes were sons of Corn. And since Cut Ear seems to be associated with Wagleza Owin, I wondered if Spotted Crow and Ashes were related to Cut Ear. |
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